Know Your Physio

Victor Sagalovsky: Deuterium Depletion, Quantum Biology, and the Path to Longevity

• Andrés Preschel • Episode 124

Share episode

Send us a text

In this fascinating episode, I sit down with Victor Sagalovsky, co-founder and CEO of Lightwater Scientific, a trailblazer in the world of deuterium depletion and its transformative impact on human health. Victor’s passion for understanding the quantum biology of water has led him to pioneer a revolutionary approach to longevity, energy optimization, and overall vitality through deuterium-depleted water. 

During our conversation, Victor dives into the science behind deuterium depletion and how it enhances mitochondrial function, oxygen utilization, and even helps to slow the aging process. He shares insights into the intricate relationship between water, energy production at the cellular level, and how managing deuterium levels can unlock profound benefits for performance, recovery, and longevity. 

This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the cutting-edge intersection of water science, quantum biology, and longevity. Whether you’re a biohacker, health enthusiast, or just seeking to elevate your wellness journey, Victor's expertise offers a unique and powerful perspective on how to use deuterium-depleted water as a tool for optimized health and performance. Tune in to discover how to take your health to the next level with insights that are both deeply scientific and highly actionable.

Key Points From This Episode:

00:04:24 - Introduction to Victor and Lightwater Scientific
00:05:10 - Understanding Deuterium Depleted Water (DDW)
00:06:42 - The Science Behind Energy Production
00:12:33 - The Impact of Deuterium on Aging
00:22:02 - The Process of Creating DDW
00:35:36 - Caloric Restriction and Deuterium
00:49:10 - Future Possibilities with Deuterium Management
01:00:24 - Discovering the Self Through Water
01:22:03  - Understanding Water's Role in Mineralization
01:36:01 - Setting a Baseline for Deuterium Levels!


Looking to discover your science and optimize your life?

APPLY FOR HEALTH OPTIMIZATION COACHING
https://calendly.com/andrespreschel/intro-call-with-andres

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Click HERE to save on BiOptimizers Magnesium

Special Offer:
Get 10% off your first order with the discount code: PHYSIO.
Also receive 20% off your Deuterium Tests.

People

Victor Sagalovsky

Dr. Laszlo Boros

Dr. Gerald Pollack

Dr. Jack Kruse

Places

Lightwater Scientific

Water Symposium

Books and References

"The Fourth Phase of Water" by Dr. Gerald Pollack

Deuterium Test Kit

Support the show

Victor Sagalovsky:
I've noticed that most people that are quote-unquote hydrated, they drink a lot of water. If you look at their cells, their cells are completely dehydrated because you keep putting the wrong water in your body. So they went to their professor and said, what do we do? And he said, figure out why these populations of Siberians live so long and are so healthy. And it took them a few years because they looked at everything. Eventually they figured out that they had 60% less deuterium in the water they were drinking. We recycle 1,500 gallons of water per day. I mean, think about that. Think about that. Like, how big of a pool is 1,500 gallons? Yeah, and that's still only about 30%, 30, 35% of the water that we need. So we got to constantly put it back in, and our bodies are constantly signaling us to it. Yes, thank you for the water. It's the wrong water, but thank you for the water. I love this quote from St. Francis of Assisi. He said, preach constantly. Use words if necessary.

Andrés Preschel: There is only one supplement that I think almost everyone on this planet should be taking, and that's a full-spectrum and highly bioavailable magnesium supplement. Because, well, let's face it, ever since the industrial revolution, our soil has been depleted of magnesium, and therefore our food is depleted of magnesium. And on top of that, Our modern environments, which are inherently overstimulating and stressful, are constantly depleting our body of magnesium. And unlike other nutrients, this is not something that your body can produce on its own. It literally needs to get it from the diet. And one individual kind of magnesium alone is not enough. You actually need seven different kinds to support over 300 biochemical reactions that help regulate your nervous system, red blood cell production, energy production, managing stress and emotions, etc. And so the folks at BioOptimizers have made it very easy and convenient to add back in what the modern world leaves out. They've created magnesium breakthrough. Now I've been taking this for the past two years and the biggest benefits that I've seen are related to my evening wind down sessions and my sleep. I tend to be pretty overactive in the evenings, just totally overthinking everything that I do. And this has helped me wind down and get more restorative, more efficient sleep. So I wake up feeling Way more refreshed, more energized, more clear, more ready for the day. And the way that I see it, sleep is upstream of essentially every other health and wellness related habit and decision. Because if you're sleeping better, automatically you're going to have more regular cravings, you're going to have higher insulin sensitivity, you can derive more of all these inputs like fitness, right? You make more gains, you gain more muscle, you burn more calories. And you wake up feeling refreshed so that you can do it again and again and again. And then beyond the fitness, you have more energy to go for a walk, to do fun activities with friends. You are less stressed, so you can socialize anxiety free. And you're also going to be retaining, refreshing and refining your skills and information much, much better. So you won't forget any names. And, yeah, I mean, like I said, over 300 chemical processes that you're supporting with magnesium. Then sleep, I mean, wow. Better sleep is just a better life in general. So, I found it extremely helpful on a personal level, and I'm sure that you guys will find it helpful too. Your mind and body, and maybe even your spirit will thank you. So anyway, if you want to get a sweet little discount off of this amazing, amazing magnesium supplement from Bioptimizers, all you have to do is visit the show notes. So you scroll down right now, takes just a couple seconds and boom, you'll have access to all seven different kinds of magnesium that your body needs. All you have to do is hit the link and use code KYP from Know Your Physio. KYP. That's all. Enjoy 10 to 22% off depending on the package you choose, whether or not you subscribe. I'm obviously subscribed because I don't even want to think about whether or not I'm going to get this essential supplement in the mail. And yeah, hope you guys enjoy that awesome stuff. And that's all for now. I'll see you guys on the show. All right, Victor, we're live on the Know Your Physio podcast. It's great to have you here, man. I can't wait to learn about you, your mission, and everything you guys are accomplishing at Lightwater Scientific. So why don't we start somewhere familiar? Why don't we start with your why? Why do you do what you do, man?

Victor Sagalovsky: It's very simple. I do what I do because I wanted to drink deuterium depleted water. And the only way for me to get any was to start a company around it.

Andrés Preschel: That's the honest truth. Nice and simple. Very concise. And why does this make so much sense to you? Why does deuterium depleted water make so much sense as a human being?

Victor Sagalovsky: Well, there are a number of clues that drive us to understand why deuterium-depleted water is the right water to consume. There's overwhelming evidence for why we should be consuming DDW and why this is a new standard of purity, but one of the best ones is that when you measure the metabolic water that's inside our mitochondria, it's deuterium-depleted. With deuterium depleted water, we are just replacing or attempting to replace the water that our bodies make, which is deuterium depleted, with a water that's as close as possible to that type of metabolic water that we make. So most people don't understand that or they simply just don't know that the water that we hydrate ourselves with daily, none of that water makes it into those nano confined spaces in the mitochondria where energy is made. or in the nucleus for that matter as well. That's water that is actually custom made by our bodies from the food we eat because the body wants absolutely pure water and it wants deuterium depleted water. And so when you start looking at the biology and how energy is made, you see how the addition of deuterium slows us down. We can get into the science of it, but that's the primary, the short explanation.

Andrés Preschel: Let's get into the science of it. Let's get into the weeds. How does that actually slow our bodies down if we're not consuming deuterium depleted water?

Victor Sagalovsky: Well, what happens in the mitochondria and the electron transport chain, we basically produce ATP through the flow of hydrogen ions. Okay. Uh, and these, actually hydrogen broken down all the way to its proton level. So this proton goes through what's called the ATP synthase nanomotor constantly, right? It's like fuel for our biology. So the motor spins and generates, it's a motor generator, so it spins and generates ATP. And this is the energy currency of the mitochondria in our biology. One of the main energy currencies for why we're able to breathe and talk and live. And so this motor performs a mechanical function and it runs on protons. A deuteron is a proton-neutron pair. That's what deuterium is. So when that proton-neutron pair, which is twice the size of a proton, when that makes it into that electron transport chain and down the chain into the ATP synthase nanomotor, It just doesn't fit. It doesn't have a place for it. So it's like putting a square peg in a round hole or trying to get an elephant through a door in your house. It busts its way through. So the motor tries to compensate, but in that moment, no ATP is produced and damage happens. There's a shear and a stutter. And this is very difficult to argue against because it's a mechanical problem that we have at the nano level so at the sub at the at the sub cellular level so and this is happening constantly so every time we get impinged about every five to eight seconds you get this bump you know your everything motors running fine and then boom boom right that's the deuteron the deuterium going through that try to get through that motor and over time that repair that has to happen when no ATP is produced and from that stuttering that happens to the motor, over time that causes a weaker membrane. Eventually the membrane gets leaks in it and that's the beginning of the end in cellular biology. So that's kind of, when I discovered that in 2007, when I read the paper, it specifically talked about this ATP synthase nanomotor and how it was affected by deuterium. Because up until then, there were 60 years of research that says, yes, Deuterium slows down our biology. Less of it is good, more of it is bad. There's a kinetic isotope effect just because it's twice the size. So for 60 years, they knew it messes up DNA because DNA is made up of water and hydrogen. So for every 300 base pair, there's one deuteron, or maybe it's worse depending on how much deuterium you have in your body. But when that paper came out in 2007, that established irrefutably the mechanical detriment, the mechanical injury that is happening constantly on the mitochondrial level. Ever since I read that, I wanted to get my hands on deuterium depleted water. And it makes sense because the body's trying to limit the deuterium from the electron transport chain. It does all it can through the complex Krebs cycle to exchange those heavy hydrogens for normal hydrogens. So normal hydrogen is protium, heavier hydrogen is deuterium. It's just the difference of the one neutron, but that makes all the difference because it changes how, it changes the kinetics of biology. And that happens all the way from the DNA, all the way, everything, everything downstream of that, collagen and mitochondria. So our bodies are engineered to try to limit this from the metabolic pathways, but we get overrun pretty quickly. So this is implicated in aging and mitochondrial deficiency or metabolic syndrome, just slowing down as you age. If you have a cell that, let's say you're 12 years old and you have a heart cell or a muscle cell and it's got 20,000, 30,000 mitochondria, maybe more, right? It can be different cells have different amount of mitochondria. But that same cell, as you get older, by the time you get to 50 or a little bit older, it starts going down. So when you have maybe 70% less mitochondria, where you started out with 30,000, maybe now you have 1,000, maybe you have 500. So the cell is shutting down its energy production slowly over time. And this is what aging is. It's an unwinding of our mortal coil and the lessening of energy that's available to us to use for life. So I saw this as a foundational intervention. It's something that's really more important than anything else because it's water. Our bodies are 98.9% water by molecular weight. So I wanted to give my body the water that my body made that was the premise and the science completely proved me right because i was i before i even had any ddw i was really into the deeply into the science so i i i had to test i had to test everything that i learned in the science my belief in the science on myself and it And for all practical purposes, not only on myself, but many others, it works. You lower a deuterium level by 20%, you get a metabolic increase in energy. So again, that's a simple explanation. That's the longer, simple explanation.

Andrés Preschel: Well, it's a long explanation, but obviously I think you really did that nuanced justice, and I think it really hits home. I think you did a great way of simplifying the very complex science, and I think it makes as much sense for me as it does you know, for anyone else tuning in, you know, regardless of their scientific background, whether it's there or not.

Victor Sagalovsky: It's easy to understand if you follow A to B to C, if you follow everything down the line, it's very easy to understand.

Andrés Preschel: Like in the beginning, I had a few questions and you just, you know, you covered everything. Um, one, one question I have, however, is, uh, is that, is that study still available? Like, can I get my hands on that study?

Victor Sagalovsky: The one that initially inspired you to, yeah, there's all the studies are still available. I have, I put everything I could, uh, except for the things I've been busy. So I haven't had a chance to update the information I consolidated all on one website. Uh, but most of it is there. It's deuterium depletion.org. Cool. And so there's been 65, almost 70 years of research that's pertaining to deuterium and deuterium depletion.

Andrés Preschel: Okay, lovely. And how did the scientists organize this study? Did they, it was like a randomized control trial? Is it an observational study?

Victor Sagalovsky: You're talking about the 2007 study on the ATP synthase, yeah? Well, that was one scientist. and this is a uh dr ogan and he's a dean of a medical university in turkey and uh this was published i think in new york a journal of medicine or analyst so one of the one of these publications so it got a little bit of exposure but it was it was It was like almost criminally overlooked, you know? This is something that's won a Nobel Prize and not a U.S. scientist so overlooked. But this gentleman, he has like three medical degrees, he's a dean of a university, and he was looking at deuterium. And the question, his premise was, the question that he asked was, based on what he read, biologically it slows us down, based on the kinetic isotope effect, quantum tunneling, things like this. But he wanted to understand, What damage can this possibly do to us? Because at the end of the day, it's very little of it. And this is where the scientists, this is where all the US scientists in the 80s, 90s were saying, yes, deuterium is incompatible with human life. Heavy water is incompatible with human life, but there's not much we can do about it and it's natural. So let's just move on to something else. So Dr. Olgun, he asked this question, well, how much, Deuterium is there in the body. Is it worth pursuing or studying further? And when he looked at it, he was quite shocked because he saw that there was five times, by mole weight, there was five times to eight times more deuterium in the blood plasma than the basic constituents of what we need for life. I'm talking about minerals like potassium, magnesium, salts, sodium, and glucose, obviously. So, there was much more deterrence. I said, okay, this is interesting. It must be doing something because even though there's one glass of water, there's maybe one and a half drops of semi-heavy water. So, it doesn't seem like very much. So then once he had the answer to this question, that yes, there's significantly much more deuterium because it's spread out, because everything is pretty much based on hydrogen, the whole universe is riding on hydrogen. And a little bit of that hydrogen is deuterium. So once he realized that, then he spent two years doing mathematical modeling of the ATP synthase nanomotor to see the kinetics of how that affected something that we can't even see with, have a very difficult time to see with a microscope. which is the ATP synthase nanomotor, but it performs a mechanical function. So with that kind of expertise, he was able to write this paper detailing exactly what happens when a deuteron enters the ATPase and what subsequently happens, the stutter and the shear and the eventual breakdown of that motor and the limiting of ATP production when you don't have it. So from a theoretical standpoint, if you removed all the deuterium from the electron transport chain, you would have six times proton motive force, six times more energy, but that's theoretical. What I've observed and other people have observed, and I think this can be proven in a quantitative way, which is what we're working on now, that you can double proton motor force in the electron transport chain. Basically, you can double the energy that you have.

Andrés Preschel: So, it's a one-to-one. So, if you can fix that at the mitochondrial level, then… Maybe.

Victor Sagalovsky: Maybe. We're not sure. We're not sure, but qualitatively, you can feel it, you can see it, you can What the body does with extra energy is profound because people say, oh, it's healing my this, it's healing my that, and I'm in remission on this thing that shouldn't be named and that thing that shouldn't be named. But I tell them what's happening is your body's this health-healing organism. It just had a little bit of input of energy that it didn't really expect. because everything is happening in a, we live in a universe of entropy, right? There's a decay of spin over time. The body doesn't expect that more energy is introduced into the system. We wind up quickly, and then we slowly wind down, and that's life. And you see it in animals, you see it in plants, you see it in humans. So when something happens that we get a net energy benefit, it's really profound, because it's almost unnatural in the sense that we are programmed to slow down. As we age, we can slow down. slow down how the body chronologically ages, but you can't stop it, it's just a natural process of the entropy that happens in this reality. So when you get a little bit of boost of energy, a real boost, something that has a pure net energy benefit at the end of the equation, that's really profound and the body just says thank you and uses that. miraculous healing things I have heard can happen. People have told me all kinds of things. So that's the best, that's not the water, that's the state of being deuterium depleted. I mean, the rub is that the fastest way to get there is drinking deuterium depleted water. It's not the only way, but if you want to do a intervention where you're going down in deuterium below what you could do naturally by yourself in nature. It's really like, I think it's one of the greatest discoveries of the 20th or 21st century. I don't know what century you put the discovery, but certainly it wasn't available for mass consumption. Still isn't. It's only available for, we only have a small supply that we're able to make. It's very difficult, but at least what we've achieved is for everyone to turn their head and focus in because we're saying, hey guys, we have a new standard of water purity here for the body. At first, we realized we needed to purify water because people were drinking water that had arsenic and lead in it. They didn't know because it tasted like water. And so we figured out we had to, you know, it's better to drink rainwater, it's distilled. And we started distilling water. Then we started purifying it reverse osmosis and carbon filter. And now we've reached a new standard, which is terium depletion. It's just that standard is, it's just a giant leap between reverse osmosis and removing what is a type of water from water. Every other purification is removing something that's not water from the water. In our purification, you're removing a water from a different type of water. You're removing a heavier water from a lighter water. And that's very difficult. takes enormous amount of power and massive industrial equipment. And you couldn't, you'd have, you have to build essentially a power plant to run the industrial equipment that, that does this stuff and has to be in a building that at least has 40 foot ceilings. And it's just massive, massive amount of infrastructure, you know? So, uh, yeah, that's what we've done. Yeah. Uh, not all, not only us, there's four companies in the world that specialize in this. So we're one of them. I'd say we're the leaders in some respects, but everybody has deuterium-depleted water.

Andrés Preschel: Wow. Okay. And this is also just mind-blowing, to say the least.

Victor Sagalovsky: It is. It blew my mind, and I was obsessed with it ever since.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I'm starting to get obsessed with it. I'm gonna do my best here to pick your brain and make sure that everyone, all the listeners whose curiosities we've provoked can get what they signed up for here by tuning into the show. So tell me about the water that we find in nature. Did we evolve consuming water before the initial revolution, back, I don't know, call it thousands of years ago, was the water that we found in nature naturally deuterium depleted?

Victor Sagalovsky: you have to go really far, far back. But in certain places in the world, it has less deuterium than others. So that's how this, this how it even came on our radar is because in the fifties in Siberia, There was a couple of young gerontologists. I think one was a biophysicist and one was a gerontologist just out of graduate school. And they wanted to make a name for themselves. So they went to their professor and said, what do we do? And he said, figure out why these populations of Siberians live so long and are so healthy. And it took him a few years because they looked at everything. It was the Yakutians and the Altaians and then they also later the Hunzas and some other populations as well in the Caucasus mountains. Uh, so they looked for a few years, like, could it be their food, the air? I mean, what is it? They're basically living like Eskimos, you know, they have, they have no running water, they have no roads. And yet these people are incredibly vibrant and live to a long, and they, and they had, and they had, uh, um, seven times more centenarians than anywhere else in the Soviet republics. And. So it was quite something that, you know, if you figure this out, yeah, you can make a name for yourself in biology or science. And they did. Eventually, they figured out that they had 16% less deuterium in the water they were drinking. And so in certain parts of the planet, you have less deuterium, simply because of the way the hydrological cycle works. So we don't need to get into that, but in certain places, especially mountains. No, no, no, let's get into it.

Andrés Preschel: No, please, let's get into it.

Victor Sagalovsky: Okay, so where the hydrological cycle is more amplified, then you have less deuterium. So that happens in higher elevations, higher latitudes, where water vapor freezes quicker, right? There's going to be a little less deuterium. where you are not, where you are the least influenced by the hydrological cycle of the ocean, because the ocean is 155.76 ppm of deuterium. So if you're close to the ocean or your weather patterns are close to the ocean or affected by the oceans, you're going to be, your deuterium is going to be higher, right? So if you're in Los Angeles or Miami, it's going to be about 150 because the ocean is 155. Versus what? Versus Well, that's the average on the planet for drinking water is 150 ppm. Versus our water, we make 10 ppm in five parts per million. So that doesn't exist in nature. But you can find, let's say Boulder, Colorado, 139 out to tap. Eastern slope of the Rockies. It's a higher elevation. It has northern Idaho parts of Canada anywhere you get glacier or glacial water Antarctica which is locked in time from 80 million years ago has the lowest deuterium on the planet at 89 parts per million if you could tow an iceberg over from Antarctica you might solve a lot of humanities problem, but it's still not better than your product

Andrés Preschel: It's still not better than our product, no.

Victor Sagalovsky: It's nine times worse. We do something that doesn't exist. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't exist in nature, but it exists in your body. So it does exist in nature in that sense that your body makes metabolic water, which is about 60 to 70% deuterium depleted. We make water that's up to 97% deuterium depleted just because We can really so we figured out how to do the impossible and so we do it because it works and it helps and but the goal in the body is to get you're never going to get down. below a certain amount. You're going to get down into the 120s if you drink a lot more DDW, practice fasting, eat less, do keto, things like this. You'll go down even more. I'm at 100 ppm. Very hard to get below 90 ppm. But the bulk of the benefit, and this is based on a new branch of biochemistry and biophysics or quantum biology called deuteronomics, which is trying to explain how deuterium is managed in the body. And so according to deuteronomics, the science of deuteronomics shows that the optimal deuterium level for the human body is around 120 parts per million, 115 to 125. So somewhere in that, somewhere there, the body can, it's where I, now I have a theory about why that is, because when humans evolved, deuterium was lower on the planet. So, and it's been, it goes in cycles up and down, but right now we're in a cycle where it's higher than it has been before. And the reason for that is the ice age, after the ice age, which was in geologic time was, very recent, even in human history, Homo sapiens sapien was already established species by that point. When the glaciers melted, that released an enormous amount of methane, which is primarily made of hydrogen into the atmosphere. And so that increased in deuterium on our planet. every time we get hit with a meteor or a comet or go through a comet tail, most of the time, with few exceptions, that the water on those extraterrestrial bodies are higher in deuterium. So there's great evidence in deuterium for the late great bombardment theory of how Earth got its water because deuterium level has been creeping up. So, and conversely, if you look at Antarctica, it's locked in time. It's 89 parts per million. And so it's from a time when you had dinosaurs that were the size of three-story houses and ferns that were the size of a human or bigger. So there was more oxygen, there was less deuterium, the magnetic field was stronger, all these were contributing factors to not only making life physically bigger, but also extending the chronological lifespan of animals and plants. And so when this was replicated in a laboratory with mice and dogs, sure enough, more deuterium, you die quicker, you have more, you have complications, disease, natural, the natural disease, diseases that we're more susceptible to as we age come on faster. And when you lower deuterium, you live longer and you're more impervious to disease. I can go on and on about, about, I mean, there's, there's this really, almost like a cornucopia of information surrounding this topic. Yeah. And yet very few people know anything about it, which just shows you that the more we learn, the less we know. There's information about so many things out there. We're just ignorant until we're not. So we don't know, we don't know. So once you know something, it's just a matter of what do you do with that information. I chose to act on it. Other people just file it in the back of their head and say, I'm going to, you know, I'll, I'll concern myself with this later, or it's not as important. It's just, what is your priority? You know? So for me, I thought, Hey, this is, I want this. I don't like getting older. I want this.

Andrés Preschel: Right. You know, deutonomics sounds like economics for bro scientists. No, but on a serious note, I'm curious.

Victor Sagalovsky: It's the economics of how water is moved in the body. Because there's no for sure. Yeah. I mean, look, you we we recycle a certain amount of water, right? In fact, we recycle 1500 gallons of water per day. I mean, think about way. Think about that. Like how big a pool is 1500 gallons? Yeah. And that's still only about 30%, 30, 35% of the water that we need. So we got to constantly put it back in and our bodies are constantly signaling us to it. Yes. Thank you for the water. It's the wrong water, but thank you for the water. We'll do what we can to change it up. And then the body goes, I can't do anything with this water. I have to make it from scratch, from fat. from food and the oxygen that you breathe, the food that breaks down to molecular hydrogen and the oxygen that we breathe. So it's the macro to the micro and back and back again. For sure.

Andrés Preschel: It's a That's a funny name. You know, I'm curious if, like, when you say dinosaurs, right, and how they thrived under these low deuterium environments that helped them, you know, live longer and grow larger, you know, if we think about, like, modern dinosaurs, for example, like a tortoise, right? These things can live, I think, over 100 years, if I'm not mistaken. They can live so, so, so long.

Victor Sagalovsky: I think the oldest tortoise is approaching 250 or 400.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, I think it was one of Darwin's tortoises, right?

Victor Sagalovsky: Yeah, there was a tortoise out there that's super old. It has a very slow metabolism.

Andrés Preschel: I wonder if they're genetically predisposed to better deutonomics, you know?

Victor Sagalovsky: They are. There's a new paper that just came out by Dr. Lazlo Boros, who coined the term deuteronomics. And it talks about the sea mammals and their strategy for managing deuterium, because they're in the ocean where deuterium is higher. So they load up certain parts of the body of deuterium to limit that from going into the metabolic pathways. Also, you can see deuterium implicated in nature because nature strategy to survive the species of nature, the animals of nature, and even, well, plants are a little different in this respect, but animals, they have deuterium depleted strategies. So we just haven't recognized them yet. For example, birds, they migrate thousands of miles. They go, like, they start out in Canada and they go down to the Caribbean. And then they go back up to Canada. Why? Because that's where they fly back 2,000, 3,000 miles to lay their eggs, to give birth to the young, right? To hatch their younglings. And why don't they just stay in the tropics and drink in Mai Tais? There's no reason to fly back to a cold and harsh environment. But there is a reason if you look at deuteronomics, because they go back there because there's less deuterium. So that's- No way. Yes. That's a survival strategy to ensure that the next generation has the energy to survive. I mean, this was shown in the early studies. Yeah, this was shown in the early studies.

Andrés Preschel: This is why birds migrate because of deuterium?

Victor Sagalovsky: This is an implication. Yeah, this was a theory that was proposed. Now, another one was the same thing with, you look at the longest living whale. in the world. You could see this with humpback whales that hang out in Alaska, and then they give birth. Alaska, they're getting deteriorated water, the runoff coming off the glaciers. Then they swim to Hawaii, and they give birth, and they fast. They fast for three to six months. which is a deuterium depleted strategy. And then they go back up to Alaska and consume deuterium depleted food and deuterium depleted water. So there's a deuterium depleted strategy in nature because it's a strategy of discrimination. Evolution discriminates for lighter hydrogen versus heavier hydrogen because it's a survival strategy.

Andrés Preschel: I am mind blown, man. I'm seriously mind blown. This is incredible. And so on a human level, right? Like can intermittent fasting help us maintain lower deuterium?

Victor Sagalovsky: Can it help us in the same way that it helps whales? It's very simple, Andreas. When you burn a kilo of fat, your body produces from that about a kilo, about a liter of deuterium depleted water. So the strategy of running off fats or being keto adapted or having appropriate carbs, let's say, but really running off fats, that is a phenomenal longevity strategy. It's actually one of the few strategies showing that caloric restriction has shown life extension.

Andrés Preschel: Wow, so this is one of the mechanisms by which caloric restriction helps us live longer.

Victor Sagalovsky: Yes, yes. The fundamental mechanism of that is deuterium depletion. Wow. That's unbelievable. It's just, as we go from the micro into the nano and start talking about quantum mechanics and quantum biology, then this whole new world opens up to us of isotopic science. Because we know the elements, but now we're understanding how different isotopes of those elements affect us. And the most drastic difference in isotopes is the one between protium, which is number one on the periodic table. It's the simplest element in nature. It has no neutron. It's one proton and electron pair. And then when you introduce that neutron, and it's a proton-neutron electron, that is the widest difference in size. It's double the mass. So from protium to deuterium, it's double the mass. And yet oxygen, which doesn't have a central organized nervous system, can't differentiate between the two. It still binds with deuterium to make water as well. Because in biology, our problem is not, technically is not deuterium. Our problem is semi-heavy water. It's oxygen, deuterium, hydrogen. And very rarely you get pure heavy water, which is what they use in nuclear power plants. That's D2O, two deuteriums, one oxygen. But in this case, the predominant damage comes from HDO or HOD, which is that one hydrogen is replaced by deuterium, which is, which is twice the mass. So it's not going away. And now that we have this knowledge, it's going to be interesting how humans use this. And I liken this to being somewhere like 20 years before the invention of the light bulb. Because we knew how to make light. In this case, we know how to make deuterium depleted water. But will we have some evolutionary leap where we figure out how to make it easier? Which is akin to figuring out the light bulb. We knew that it was a possibility, but the science didn't exist. Right now, the science doesn't exist to remove deuterium from water with any other means except by what's known to us and what we use, which is a huge discovery and a huge leap in filtration and rectification all on its own. But it's not going to move the needle for humanity. It's only going to move the needle for those people that know about this now and they can buy it while we have it. Or at least, you know, we only produce a limited amount because it's just so difficult. And so if the demand exceeds the supply, then Then when I wanted it, there was no, I mean, there was some supply, but it was very hard to get DDW. There was none in this country. So I was very fortunate, because it almost feels like a fate type of scenario, because I went where the science was, discovered and where it was cultivated and where it was invented was Russia, right? Actually, former Soviet Union, Russia and Ukraine, both. And so I went over there looking for the scientists that were involved in this because I tried to do it on my own and I realized I didn't have the acumen and I was just light years away from figuring this out on my own. So I went looking for the real brains behind this and I found them. The reason is because I speak fluent Russian. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So that was, that was a serendipity. And, um, and here we are now five years later. So we're, we're at the point where we're getting ready to build a U S U S factory to do it here. And, um, still, still, it's still working.

Andrés Preschel: Right. So a lot of people today, they've got these RO systems, reverse osmosis underneath their kitchen sink. That's great. I have a five-stage filter and a structuring unit and I have a harmonizer for the water. But there aren't too many people that have a kitchen sink that is 40 feet tall and can remove deuterium from the water.

Victor Sagalovsky: 40 feet tall, and I don't want to tell you the power bill. But you could see the power bill reflected in the cost per liter of the water. Right. Why is it so expensive? It's because it's energy. It's energy in.

Andrés Preschel: Right. And how much does it cost for, you know, how much does a liter of water cost? It's about 18 bucks a liter. 18 bucks a liter.

Victor Sagalovsky: And how many liters? It's like 18 to 20, depending if you buy it off our site, off Amazon, which, you know, we have, we, we have water in glass. Uh, we have it in plastic. We have 10 PPM, we have five PPM, we have subscription, you know, so it's, but it's roughly, roughly you're going to spend. 300 to 300 and more dollars per month on water. And it's a strange concept to adapt to. Uh, because it's like, it's like paying, it's like a car payment without a car. But, uh, that's the price of deuterium fleet of water because that's the price of energy. And so you, so the relationship is we put a lot of energy into separating the heavy water from the light water and you, pay us with your energy to get that because it saves the most important energy, which is physical energy.

Andrés Preschel: Right. I mean, the motor isn't in the car, the motor is in your cells and there's millions and millions and millions of motors. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, you are the car. Yeah, for sure.

Victor Sagalovsky: Okay. We didn't even talk about DNA replication because DNA has to have that perfect double helix. And so if one of those hydrogens is replaced by a deuteron, that distorts the shape of the DNA. And if you have one, two, three, um, distortions in the, in those base pairs, what happens during replication is errors in transcription. ourselves being a copy of a copy of a copy this is really important because as we age we see the physical signs of aging it's just it's just the copy the xerox didn't get copied properly it was it lost a little bit of its resolution so mistakes were made And, you know, you're low on toner, you know, that's an analogy or something. So, this is what's happening as we constantly, as our DNA constantly replicates. So, if you want that, you have to have that, everything has to be wired tight. And wired tight means proper geometry. And that geometry is distorted. When you have something taking the place, like your body's looking for a hydrogen in these areas. And so when it's replaced by a deuteron, the body has to compensate, because it doesn't fit. It just simply doesn't belong there. And this is the big aha. This is a big revelation. We keep constantly putting something into our body that just, that physiologically does not belong. This has no benefit whatsoever. So, although there is some argument about maybe it has some benefit in early bone development, but that's not, that has to do with, deuterium is a shorter bond, so it's a harder bond to break. And there's the kinetics of it. Again, it's, if everybody, you know, if you have a team, if you have a sports team and everybody's fit, but you got one guy and you're only as weak as, you're only as strong as your weakest link. And you got one guy that is, You know, he's 300 pounds, you know, he can't run well, you know, he's sick, you know, and yet you have to rely on him for things. You're going to be as strong as your weakest link. And our weakest link is the terrium is one of those weak links in our biology.

Andrés Preschel: So let's, let's do what we can to limit it. If you're heavy, you've got heavy water. You got to get rid of us.

Victor Sagalovsky: If you woke up tomorrow and you were twice the mass that you are now, you would have to reformulate your strategy in every movement of your life. And that's essentially what, when you zoom into the nano, that's essentially what's happening.

Andrés Preschel: Interesting. It's double the mass. And let me ask you something. So if, do plants, for example, do they naturally convert create water that is deuterium depleted?

Victor Sagalovsky: Everything in nature has a strategy for deuterium management. So plants are going to be about the deuterium level that they get from their root, from the groundwater or from the rain. They're going to be about the same. So if you're cultivating plants in an area that is 130 ppm of deuterium, the plants can be about the same. And with the exception of the fats, see, nature's strategy is to load up the carbs and deplete the fats. And in a plant, you're also going to find more deuterium in the roots than you will in the leaves, because it's simply heavier. It's not going to force that up. Everything in nature is looking for the path of least resistance. I talk about this all the time. It's an energy conservation strategy. You're always looking for the shortest path. That's why we use ways. It's the shortest path. So with the least amount of effort, the least amount of damage. And that everything in nature and everything in biology takes that route. In fact, this is another mind blowing thing to be aware of. Everything in nature breaks the laws of physics as we know it, conventional physics, in order to live and breathe and to exist. And what that is, it's known as quantum mechanics, and it's called quantum tunneling. And what quantum tunneling is, is when a atomic particle, nothing beyond hydrogen or deuterium quantum tunnels, but everything smaller than deuterium and hydrogen quantum tunnels. And what quantum tunneling is, is that It's like genie. It disappears in one place and reappears in the other without any energy spent. So it bi-locates. So a hydrogen, a proton comes to a barrier, an energetic barrier, or like we call it like a hill, and it goes through it. It doesn't go over the energetic barrier. It just goes through it and appears on the other side. And so everything in nature uses this. We wouldn't be alive if we didn't break the laws of conventional physics by quantum tunneling. So a deuteron quantum tunnel is slower than a proton. or a hydrogen atom. And that, for our energy production, that has incredible implications. As we start to understand about the quantum world, which is very alien to the macro-conventional physics world, because we break rules, we don't have explanations for We know why we break them, but we don't know how. So it's a giant leap in our understanding of our physiology.

Andrés Preschel: Wow. I mean, I'm just really trying my best to make sense. I mean, it makes sense to me. I'm trying to wrap my head around it because I'm just so mind blown, you know. What a leap in consciousness to consider

Victor Sagalovsky: It is. It absolutely is. It's kind of information. It's… The implications of this new information is an entire revolution of the foundations of chemistry, biology, physics. But they're trying to make them compatible, saying, well, when you go down to a natal level, things behave differently than they do out here. Things in the micro behave differently than they do in the macro. I'm curious. But at the same time, one is reflective of the other. So what are the possibilities? So it's exciting.

Andrés Preschel: I'm curious, you know, if there's a way, I mean, I don't know if you have given this too much thought or if it's in the foreseeable future for your mission and your company, but what if you started a farm, you know, that ran on the tier of depleted water? And that's now outside of drinking the water, you have access to all kinds of foods that serve a similar benefit, but now it's part of your everyday life.

Victor Sagalovsky: That's a phenomenal goal. It's a phenomenal goal. It'd be very difficult to do because you'd have to do it You have to put it in a place in nature where it already has naturally deteriorated water. Or the most you could probably get that's accessible is like 125 to maybe 130, which is still being a very harsh, high elevation environment. But you can do it. And I've done experiments where I've grown spirulina. in 10 PPM deuterium depleted water. Certainly when you grow plants in areas that have less deuterium, they grow to maturity faster and they're bigger and they produce more seed if they're seed crops. So what they do in Siberia, they grow strawberries and other berries in greenhouses. So that would be a deuterium depleted food in a sense. So you can also, You know, your strategy of diet can be informed by this as well, depending where do you source, if you're a meat eater, where do you source your meat? What is it primarily eating? Grains is a massive problem because grains are loaded with deuterium, so we are increasing the deuterium level in our food. And so we can do the opposite. Like you said, we can, we can, but in a very, but in a closed environment, you know, you couldn't make enough water except for some basic experiments. But if you, but if you source your food from places that has naturally less deuterium over time, it gets, it's an incredible, incredible benefit. I mean, absolutely incredible. Because if you take twins, you know, biologically identical twins and you put one in Los Angeles and you put one in Boulder, Colorado, and there's a difference, there's a difference of 16 parts per million of deuterium. Over time, you're going to see a difference in how their biology adapts and their energy, how energy is used in their body and how they age. You're going to see a difference.

Andrés Preschel: Well, and I'm curious, I eat a lot of fish, right?

Victor Sagalovsky: Fish is, I love fish.

Andrés Preschel: I eat salmon. Yeah. So if you eat the flesh of an animal that is in a high deuterium environment, as you said, the ocean contains a lot of deuterium, is that going to increase the concentration of deuterium in your body or is it going to decrease? Fat in animals is going to be less.

Victor Sagalovsky: But still not well known. What we do know is we've measured fat of different animals and they're consistently 15 to 20% lower in deuterium, the fat of the animal. that may be different for some animals so it's still not not a lot of knowledge on this but again if you uh look at just type in laslo or go to his website dr laslo boros l-a-s-z-l-o-b-o-r-o-s he's really the most Advanced most most educated most forward thinker in the scientific space in this and and he's just written him and Stephanie set up for just released them a monumental paper and And so they're trying to really shake the tree of biology right now with this because it's not going away. It's just, it's just, you know, people are coming, we have a paradigm paralysis that we're in. So people are tend to get comfortable where they're at. So new, new information is going to be challenged because it, it forces you to, it forces you to rethink things you already know. So, uh, but the, We've been having a revolution in biology for the last hundred years, so it hasn't stopped yet. We're trying to figure out not only what makes us tick, but how to make us tick longer. And we're not there yet, but as we get, as we understand, as we really have a manual of the human genome and cellular biology, we're getting closer. We understand the things that are causing us to age. And so I've identified one with the help of others as deuterium, and there's others. And if we mitigate those, then we potentially can have extreme longevity. uh but uh and we you know the interesting thing is in i found censuses old census conducted in the caucuses and uh places in uh the former soviet republics that were done in the 1800s and they they these people claimed that they were in their 140s 150s that they were some over 200 years old these mountain People and so that I'm very interested in studying these cases of extreme longevity because I do believe it's real It just because we haven't met anybody that's that old doesn't mean it doesn't mean those people don't exist and I want to understand how they achieved that. A lot of it is genetics. A lot of it, obviously, is just luck. But there is true science that's quantifiable there. And so that's a passion of mine because we all want to, now that we're here, we all want to be here as long as possible. And because there's so much, there's so much benefit to being here versus not. So why not? So yeah, I just, what's strange to me is like people's motivations. Like what I'm motivated by is completely different to what other people are motivated by. So my motivation happens to lie in this realm. And I'm not a scientist by training, Even though doctors always call me for advice on nutrition. I'm just a curious person that didn't trust anybody. Someone said, hey, it's seven days in a week. I said, why? Why not 10? And I was like, I remember five years old. So, I'm very suspicious of humans, but at the same time, certain humans bring something into human consciousness and sometimes it's overlooked. And so, I like to champion those things that are overlooked. they're overlooked because of this paradigm paralysis that we're in so that's if I'm battling against anything it's this it's that it's just is to is to is to we're not we're not there yet you know so let's keep going it's not settled science all the things we say oh it's settled it's settled but I don't think it is so let's keep moving forward you know so that's that's that's that's where I'm at okay

Andrés Preschel: Well, from a founder and business owner's perspective, how much of your effort lies in having this incredible company and access to this water? How much of your effort lies there versus pushing this paradigm forward and just completely revolutionizing the way that we think about our energy?

Victor Sagalovsky: I'm trying to move all those pieces forward together. It's very intricate, because on one hand, there's a technical aspect of doing this, so the engineering side. And that's a whole other discipline than the science of it and the biology of it. And there's a whole other discipline of the marketing of it and running the business and putting in you essentially what is a new category. uh and water as a service into the consciousness you know it's like it and and and having to um prove that what you have is is valid and not just not just the next fad or trend. So yeah, it's all-encompassing. It really is. And we have a small, dedicated team to this that's all over the world, actually. So the problems are multi-tiered, not only on the production side, but also on the marketing side, on the sales side, on the education side. This is a product. You're not really going to get the benefit of unless either you just wholeheartedly believe it, in which case it'll work for you, or you really get into the education and the science of it. Try to understand what's really happening, how water moves in your body. Really get a foundational education that allows you to make better choices. Or just listen to somebody that you trust, like a doctor who says, you need to get on this. OK, I'm on it. Done. So I'll be honest with you, it's a big challenge. It's a big challenge. I'm only graced in the sense that I have the energy for this challenge, because I'm deuterium depleted. And I know that's where my limitless energy comes from. Wow. So limitless mental and physical stamina. That's, that's what I've, that's, that's the benefit that I've, and, and, and I'm putting that benefit back into the company to, to, to make more DDW available for more people.

Andrés Preschel: Right. Wonderful. I really admire your noble mission and, I mean, it's incredible that you went from a curious and inspired individual all the way to having a service that you provide that is helping people in ways that are so powerful. I mean, obviously, the vast majority of people, including myself, I mean, Most people don't know about this. They never even thought that you could take water in this direction, that you can get so microscopic about the influence that water can have in your body.

Victor Sagalovsky: If you've made it this far, we have a water conference coming up. If you've listened this far, I would say you're meant to be there. watersymposium.org November 8th, 9th, and 10th in Tulum, Mexico. We're gathering all the top water scientists and influence in the water space and we're going to have an amazing gathering of really paradigm shifting people. And anyway, I'm promoting that event right now, if you want.

Andrés Preschel: For sure. I'd love to be there. That's amazing.

Victor Sagalovsky: I'd love to check it out. watersymposium.org. Yeah, because I say that, you know, I came up with this idea that if you know water, you can better know yourself. And I think that's, well, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a kind of a innocent quote, you know, but I think there's some substance there because at least for me, because I started understanding how water, when I started dry fast, I started, I started to hear how, what is, I was involved in other water companies, involved in, I mean, I was obsessed with water even before deuterium depletion. I was flying around the world, going to different sacred springs. You know, I was just, just, it was a, it was a fun hobby. You know, other people have other people have other hobbies, you know. That water was my hobby. I'd hike to places that nobody went to as a source of rivers and springs with my meters. I was just trying to understand things, having fun with it. I think I lost my train of thought here for a second.

Andrés Preschel: From your passion with water all the way to the symposium.

Victor Sagalovsky: Oh, yeah, yeah. So, so I didn't, yeah, getting back to the dry fasting. So I, and I, and me saying that, you know, water and you may better know it yourself. And so I started, I started like, okay, if I, how am I going to, how am I going to know how water works in my body? Well, I'll just stop, stop giving it water and see what happens.

Andrés Preschel: So I started more viscous.

Victor Sagalovsky: So I started, so my first time I went five days without water. No food or water. I just observed myself, observed the thirst, observed what's happening. And I did that progressively over a number of years. I think 144 hours was the most that I got to. And then I talked to people and met people that were doing this clinically for serious diseases. I mean, they were going on 10 to 14 day dry fasts under medical supervision. But I learned so much from that, not only through the process of the fasting, but also through how you come back into essentially the world of the normal or the living, and how that first water tastes on your lips. it's a self it's a process of self-inquiry and so it's a balance between this intuitive sense that we have and this self-experimentation and then being being well educated enough to be a critical thinker and pick out what's important in uh reading scientific papers and understanding that language to begin with so this is something that i i think that if you cultivate it for a number of decades you get you get you get adapted these things you know you you just Whatever you do, you get better at.

Andrés Preschel: So you just keep doing. Right. I mean, it's as simple as, you know, going back to your quote, you know, if you know your water, you know yourself. I mean, we're made of mostly water. I mean, just by volume, right? You quite literally get to know yourself better.

Victor Sagalovsky: You know yourself better, yeah. Because you can observe your thirst. You can observe all kinds of things when it comes to water. You know, how it enters, how it leaves, you know, how you think about it. It's a profound relationships because 98.9% of the molecules in your body are water. So it's attached to just about everything else. And then I broke out into a greater understanding beyond water, which is, well, let's take what water is made of. Let's take the two gases that produce water. The molecule of water is made from the molecule of molecular hydrogen, which is the atom of hydrogen, and oxygen, molecular oxygen, O2. And then you see how the body uses hydrogen and oxygen. And then you see that most health conditions or both health interventions and everything in life just about can be approached from the simplification of those three things, water and its constituents, hydrogen, oxygen, and water. If those are working properly physiologically, then it will it will inform everything else, including your health. And then you add on top of that mineralization, because that's how energy moves through their body, how energy conducts needs the minerals. So now you're looking at the fuel of our biology, oxygen, hydrogen, water, minerals. And then you see how you start breaking things down to the simple, away from the complex. And then And then knowledge becomes manageable, it becomes harmonious, it becomes in coherence with everything else. Because simplicity really is, the profound truth is in simplicity and not in complexity. So everything complex is always trying to be explained in a simple way.

Andrés Preschel: So let me ask something. You're going to have to refresh me on the organic chemistry here. Sure. Can you have these heavy hydrogens, can you find them in hydrocarbon chains? Of course. Yes.

Victor Sagalovsky: Primarily fine.

Andrés Preschel: All right, perfect. So, is that the mechanism by which fat loss equals deuterium loss?

Victor Sagalovsky: Yes.

Andrés Preschel: Because fat molecules are hydrocarbon chains with a glycerol backbone. You break down fat, you break this up, you lose the deuterium. Is it as simple as that?

Victor Sagalovsky: Yes.

Andrés Preschel: I mean, at least for me, I'm sure.

Victor Sagalovsky: Yes, it is that simple. It is that simple, and because nature was depleting the fats, that's why there's less to tarium in the fat than the carbs, unless it's a very extreme case. But see, we're living in extreme times because the standard American diet is Inverse of what is is food and it's food like but it's not really food keeps you alive because because because it all breaks down to glucose at the end of the day or or Acetoacetone fats, but primarily glucose is the driver of the biology and then right and what is group glucose break down to well hydrogens and And those hydrogens, they produce metabolic water and it all gets recycled and up-cycled and down-cycled. But a body in balance tends to stay in balance. So to get the body metabolically in balance, the intervention of deuterium depletion is a wonderful way to get in at the foundation of things.

Andrés Preschel: Right at the root source. Right. Let me see if I got this right. So the fat containing natural foods in nature have lower parts per million deuterium. So if we are on a ketogenic diet and we're enabling caloric restriction- You are naturally- Diluting deuterium.

Victor Sagalovsky: You are naturally living a deuterium depleted lifestyle.

Andrés Preschel: So you're diluting deuterium because the relative deuterium in the fat that you're consuming is lower than the fat that you have in your body. And I mean, it's not like a ketogenic diet is the only way to establish a calorie deficit. My question is like, independent of the diet type, so whether it's a primarily, let's say, glucose diet versus a ketogenic diet, let's say you're establishing the same degree of a calorie deficit, is the ketogenic independently going to be better at depleting deuterium? 100%. Okay, and that's because the calories that you're using to create the building blocks of your physiology also, you know, they have a lower, they're more diluted.

Victor Sagalovsky: Has less deuterium, yeah, has less deuterium.

Andrés Preschel: Right, right. So it's, you're losing fat, so you need deuterium, and you're diluting it with the food that you're bringing into your body.

Victor Sagalovsky: Yeah, Dr. Boros, he says, if you want to lower deuterium naturally, drink less water and eat more fat. So.

Andrés Preschel: That's hilarious because in this realm of health, optimization, and longevity, you always have these reminders to hydrate.

Victor Sagalovsky: But it doesn't come from a physical signal. It doesn't come from your brain. It comes from just a belief system and habit and programming. Why not just wait to drink until you're thirsty? Most people that are I've noticed that most people that are quote unquote hydrated, they drink a lot of water. If you look, if you look at their cells, their cells are completely dehydrated because you keep putting the wrong water in your body. So, so I, yeah, when you are deuterium depleted, you need less water because everything is a, everything is a more home, more homeostasis. Oh wow. You see, so, and at first, at first your body will, you will, you will pee more because your body's exchanging saying, Oh, I got, I got, I got something that's more useful. I'm just going to get rid of the, I'm going to exchange, do hydrogen, what's mechanism known as hydrogen exchange, exchange the heavies for the lights. So the body does that, it selects, there's a selective process where it wants to, it discriminates against the heavy and in favor of the proton, the protean, the light hydrogen. So like I said before, we have to break the laws of physics just to exist because we are, because it's an energy game and at some point we figured that we have to, we have to create energy essentially create energy out of nothing manifested out of the ether in order to get that extra little bit so life can so that so the so life can happen so consciousness can evolve it's it's it's it it's incredible you know it's really as you mentioned earlier right like the more you know the more you learn the more you realize you don't know

Andrés Preschel: You continue to blow my mind and realize that there's so many layers to this.

Victor Sagalovsky: The key that I got in life, Andres, is to learn how to learn. Because if you don't get that one little subtle initiation of how to learn and how to ask the right questions, you won't get anywhere. And that critical thinking, you have to have good mentors for that. You have to have a good education to have skills of reasoning, to have skills of logic, to have skills of critical thinking. Not everybody has that these days. And I think it depends on how that was cultivated in you. And at what time, you know, what time in your life did you, did you have the right mentors? And if you got lucky, you will learn how to ask those right questions. I know how to ask the right questions. So that was, that, that's all starts there. And so, and, and so the other good question is, yeah, are we overhydrating? Are we, are we overeating? I mean, we're even over breathing. People say, which as counterintuitive as that sounds, we are over-breathing. Just as we're over-drinking, over-breathing.

Andrés Preschel: I second that 100%. I mean, most people are in a sympathetic state. They're mouth breathing or they're just breathing with the upper chest. They're breathing more. And if you enable a more parasympathetic, say you have a more regulated nervous system, you're going to take less and more efficient breaths per minute. I mean, simple as that, right? We breathe.

Victor Sagalovsky: If we needed to breathe for oxygen, we would need one breath per minute. We only, we breathe to exhale carbon dioxide. Yep. So, and how that, and how we, and if when we, when we breathe that carbon dioxide out through the mouth, we get hypocampnic and that destroys us physically. And, and so it's not diet related, you know, we shorten our lifespan or extend our lifespan just by how we breathe. So these simple things that we take for granted, how we breathe, the water we drink, you know, what we put in our mouth, the foods we eat, even stressful thoughts will acidify your blood. So these things are simple, but infinitely, but the ramifications are infinitely complex. So I got, you know, when I was younger, I looked in a, I was looking at, you know, I was good at the sciences and I thought everything was kind of fake, so I didn't pursue that, but I was looking at it and then I opened the book and it had the names of all these diseases, right? I'm thinking, oh my God, how many diseases are there? It's like endless. You know, you go through it, it's just, it's like this, this, this is like millions of diseases. And then I realized that if you want to have, if you want to be successful in health, you will, you will not even get to the point where, or whatever, whatever you're suffering from can even be, can even be named. Because once it's named, you're in the medical system. You have this, right? Where nature doesn't name diseases. You know, it just says something. It just, it just, it just gives you a clue. It just taps you on the shoulder says, Hey, something's wrong. You got to listen. And then, and then, and then you, and then, and then you do preventative measures to, to take care of yourself. Uh, but as soon as, you know, but we have this whole industry, you know, we've, we've built an industry around disease management, disease, disease, uh, treatment and disease prevention. So all things being equal, I'll, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll be in the prevention camp. Thank you very much. Haha.

Andrés Preschel: Same here. And I think at least 99% of the folks tuning in can say the same. And so I'm excited for them to tune into our conversation and for them to provoke their curiosity and their inspiration and consider a subscription to this DDW that you've made available to us.

Victor Sagalovsky: try it out, try it out for three months. You really need self. Okay. Some people, they, they, they swear, they feel deterrent depletion acting right away, you know, and, and there's, you know, I'm not going to, I believe it, you know, because some people are very subtle and some people, uh, a little bit, a little, a little, a little bit has profound impact, but generally do it for three months to start, because day one begins at day 90, because when you drink deuterium-inflated water, you can learn all about it on our website. There's tons of information, but to simplify it, if you drink deuterium-inflated water, you will reduce your deuterium in your body by one quarter to one ppm per day at the at the extreme and so it's going to take three months for you to get down to a level that is where you're where where deutonomics says is the ideal for humans which is about 120 ppm okay That's where the magic happens when you drop those 30 points. And then so you get, take 90 days to get there. And now you want to maintain that for a while. You can maintain that forever. You can maintain it for as long as you need to, to, uh, to get back into a, get back into a metabolic equilibrium. So, so I just wanted to say that it's not an overnight, it's not an overnight fix. It's something you need to devote yourself to.

Andrés Preschel: And what if you got like a DDW IV or you did a blood transfusion of some sort with DDW? I mean, could that potentially be a faster way to get you… you know, to dilute your deuterium.

Victor Sagalovsky: There's been some questions in this realm, and it tells me you're very astute, because you are asking the right questions. And generally, no. Again, that's going to be hard to know completely until we are doing this in a clinical type setting. But really, if you want to, If your goal is to deplete deuterium faster, now I say slow and steady wins the race, but in some instances you want to go all out.

Andrés Preschel: So if you want to go all out… Do the water fast and then get the subscription.

Victor Sagalovsky: Well, yeah, you could, yeah, you could break a dry fast with DDW. That's a great one. But, uh, sweating, if you perspiring, doing saunas, you will, you lose most amount of water we lose is when, is when we're, is what is by breathing and then, and then through sweating. So if you, it's just, it's just how quickly are you exchanging water in the body? So if you exchange the water quicker, you will deplete faster. Also, if you're BMI, the lower your BMI, the faster you will deplete as well.

Andrés Preschel: So, you know, we mentioned earlier how I live in South Beach, I'm near the water, and technically there's higher deuterium, but I'm sweating bricks out here, man. Well, yeah, you're in a humid environment. Maybe it cancels out to an extent.

Victor Sagalovsky: I tell you, the way to tell, if you take a healthy person and they're a young person, right, because this doesn't really, the terrarium doesn't really start rearing its ugly head until you start, until you actually start chronologically seeing the signs of aging and for certain people that are, you know, younger because they have some metabolic condition. but and then of course for athletes as well because it's it's it's a you know, if you're if you if you were deteriorated and You're just you're just metabolically gonna be faster than the next guy. Okay, our girl so but if you want to determine if a person is naturally metabolically fit for for if the metabolic pathways are healthy enough that you are managing your own deuterium, then you can do a saliva test. See, I started a lab, deuteriumtest.com, so we could actually measure people's deuterium level. And we measure saliva. Saliva is a great indicator of the body's deuterium level. Now, another indicator is the breath vapor. And when you compare saliva versus breath vapor, which is just harder to get because you got to breathe into a bag to collect the breath vapor, and then we don't need much. You need a couple milliliters to test it. So if you compare the breath vapor to the saliva and you see a delta, of a couple of points where the breath vapor has less deuterium than the saliva, you know your body is metabolically optimal. It's doing its best to manage deuterium because the breath vapor is more reflective of the intercellular water and the saliva is more reflective of the extracellular water. Oh, wow. So if you don't see a delta, your body's not filtering deuterium. You have a metabolic inefficiency. If you see a delta in the other direction, chances are you are suffering from some kind of disease.

Andrés Preschel: Wow. Well, I'll tell you what, I am very inspired to subscribe to your service. I want to get started immediately and I want to test this out myself. And I'm curious, do I have to remineralize your water? Do I need to structure your water? Is it optimal as is? What does it take?

Victor Sagalovsky: Okay, those are another series of great questions. On the remineralization front, we are the only DDW producer in the world that does not put minerals back in their water. Our water is technically lab-grade pure because it's two megaohms of resistance if people know what that is. It's just no ionic activity in there whatsoever. You can't even measure the pH because there's nothing to measure. It's neutral. So, and oddly enough, most distilled water, because it's almost like a hyper distilled or deionized water, at least in my experience, those waters don't taste very well. They taste flat. They don't, they taste dead. Our water actually tastes alive. It tastes delicious. It tastes really good. So, it's hard to, could be the lack of deuterium, but it's, the water has nothing in it. It's just pure H2O with 94 to 97% of the heavy water molecules removed. So there's nothing else in there. So we mineralize through food. I don't think mineralization through water is that important. Certainly, there are certain waters that have minerals that we can absorb, like bicarbonates, magnesium bicarbonates and sodium bicarbonate. And those waters are very beneficial because bicarbonates are bioavailable. But most other, we also have to be conscious of, you know, is that mineral a mineral in water or is it an element, right? Is it bioavailable or is it not? So we don't put anything back in the water because generally once you try to re-flavor a water for taste, you can never do as good as nature does. If you find that perfect spring, it's amazing. So there's just the taste of it. You can never do that. So we just say, Here, we're not trying to mess with it. Here it is, deuterium-inflated water, pure as it is. So we recommend mineralizing with kentone or kentone marine plasma, which is an ocean of minerals, the closest thing to blood plasma that you could put in your body. And it's a product that's 120 years old. Uh, and that's a, there's a hypertonic and isotonic. So we also sell that product because that is the best way to get the trace minerals into your body. So, um, now in terms of structuring our water is structured by virtue of that. It's pure H2O or as pure as possible there. So when you, If you're familiar with easy water and Dr. Jerry Pollack's work, and he'll be a speaker at our event, at our symposium, you'll know that there's a layer called, there's a fourth phase of water called easy water. And essentially it's water that's so structured that it behaves like ice. It's crystalline like ice, but it's liquid like water. So, because uncontaminated and other reasons, it's very structured, very ordered. Jerry found, this hasn't been released yet, but Jerry found that the easy water layer is 20% bigger, wider with deuterium depleted water. So our water is structured in that sense, where it's closer to metabolic water. I like to do things like vortex water. That's something I think that has some subtle effect. Spinning it into a vortex, it brings in universal energies and does something to the water, I think. So beyond that, there are some other structuring devices. There's all kinds of structuring devices, but at the end of the day, the best structuring device is this right here. You know, that's the best structuring device. It's your intention. It's you. It's our thought, our thought forms and our thought and the waves that we emanate, the thought forms in our And our aura has a profound effect on things around us. And water, being like a hard drive where it can hold information and memory, we can affect it with our thought forms very easily. Now, what's interesting, the people that have focused on this experimentation in terms of water structuring, they find that there are some waters in nature that are not affected by human thought. They're so structured that you can't change them. And others are highly impressionable. It's just, we store information in water and water stores, water has a memory of what it's been in contact with and the harmony that it's been exposed to. And that's reflective in the crystalline structure of the water. So ours comes pretty crystalline structured as it is, doesn't hurt to vortex it a little, give it some good vibes and you're good to go. But as far as the minerals, the Kentone, those are the ones that I'd recommend. And there's a lot of science on it. Like you can replace, you can take Ketone Isotonic and you can transfuse somebody with that. If they've lost 95% of the blood in their body, you can give them Ketone and they will survive, they will live. And because it's the closest thing to blood plasma. We are, our blood essentially is just a, is very similar to the ocean. So this is just a very complex ocean water that's bioavailable. There's a lot of information on it if you don't know about it. It's just a deep dive, pun intended, that you can deal with.

Andrés Preschel: I love the pun because I'm a free diver myself. Hey, so this is all just unbelievable. I mean, everything we've covered today is really, really, truly unbelievable. I mean, I don't think I've been blown away. You've blown me away.

Victor Sagalovsky: It's important stuff. It's important stuff. And we didn't even talk about, I didn't know you were a free diver because the deuterium depletion is a strategy of oxygen optimization. So if you, if you, if you look at the Himalayas and, uh, you know, there's a, there's, there's a, when, when the, when the season's right, there's an endless trail of people trying to climb on Everest. But what did all those people have in common? They all have supplemental oxygen. And the only people that don't have supplemental oxygen are the Sherpas. And a few Westerners have been able to climb, because of a ketogenic diet, they've been able to climb Mount Everest without oxygen.

Andrés Preschel: And so- And higher CO2 tolerance and regulated nervous system and deteriorated depletion.

Victor Sagalovsky: Well, the water at base camp is 125 ppm. So if you hang out at base camp long enough, you will lower your deuterium enough to increase the amount of energy that you can use. Because these are the studies that we have done. And we found that your body utilizes oxygen sometimes two times, times what? Sometimes at double the efficiency of someone at 125 ppm versus 150. Double the efficiency and oxygen utilization. So it's like, it's like being at elevation without being, or getting the benefit of that.

Andrés Preschel: So that's, I mean, for me personally, that would be a relatively uninvasive, quantifiable way to, so it's a way to measure the influence that this can have on my physiology.

Victor Sagalovsky: I've been wanting to connect with free divers specifically for this.

Andrés Preschel: Something as simple as my bottom time, right? Right. I know my bottom time. I have a dive watch. Every dive that I take, and I take, I don't know, call it 50 to 100 dives every time I'm on the water. If you can change that, man, if you can give me a competitive edge there, oh my God.

Victor Sagalovsky: This will be exciting. I think this will be exciting.

Andrés Preschel: Well, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. And I've never done this on any podcast before. I mean, I've had so many incredible guests that have incredible companies, missions, products. I've never ordered their product live on a show. And I think I'm about to do that with you right now. I know that we're over on time. And I do have to sign off in just a couple of minutes. Why don't you, I'm here on the product page of your site. What do I need to get?

Victor Sagalovsky: You need to get, well, you gotta decide if you're gonna get water and plastic or glass. Glass, 100%. Okay. We test both. There's no difference. We blow our own plastic. We actually have our own glass too. BPA-free plastic? It's yeah, all PET-1 actually is BPA free. So it's, it's, it's, it's, everybody should know that, uh, BPA is in, uh, PET-7 and, uh, I think six perhaps, but the P all PET-1 is BPA free. The danger of plastic is that, is that, uh, well, the microplastics obviously, Uh, if you, if you see, if you, you know, if you scratch it or something, but really plastic it's, it's in, it's, it's being exposed to extremes in temperature and some, and you, and ultraviolet light. So we send everything temperature controlled, like, you know, like I, in order for me to drink out of plastic, I had to go, I had to go the extra, the extra step to make it safe. So, uh, but what, but we also, we make it available in glass or plastic. So I just wanted to let you know that you're getting the same thing in both. It's just obviously glass is heavier. It's more expensive. But the water is exactly the same. So if you want the glass, then you can get the 10 PPM or the 5 PPM. Now, the difference is not much. You're not getting twice the benefit of 5 versus the 10. We have 5. the honest truth of why we made 5 ppm is because we could and nobody else nobody else could and so it was just a little bit extra uh but let's say you your strategy is diluting the water, right? Let's say some people mix, you can either mix it in your body or it's going to get mixed with water eventually if you're consuming something else, some other liquid. So if you take regular water and you combine it with DDW or 10 ppm, if you have a glass that's 150 ppm and you have 10 ppm, you combine those, you get 80 parts per million. And if you take five PPM and you combine it with 150 PPM water, you get 77 PPM. So there's not much difference between five and 10. No, no, for sure. I mean, it is that little bit of extra. So the people that drink five PPM, they're the ones that tend to drink the light water straight. Most deuterium depleted water in the world. But as far as the strategy of deuterium depletion, the more affordable way is the 10 PPM. Right. So, you know, it's just whatever. It's just, it's just, it, it becomes, it becomes a matter of economics.

Andrés Preschel: Well, it's almost negligible because you're averaging out an absolute value.

Victor Sagalovsky: It's negligible. It's absolutely negligible.

Andrés Preschel: Okay. So then in that case, I'll do the 10 ppm.

Victor Sagalovsky: So in that case, get the, if you want the glass, the 10 ppm glass, which comes in one liter bottles. okay and uh and there's a there's a i want to i want to make a discount for you and that and that a discount that that you could give to your viewers and listeners so i'm not prepared with that right now

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, I know. Okay. So maybe we'll wait until that's available. And I, I mean, I, I give you my word, like I'm going to subscribe. I know there's a, there's a 20% subscription.

Victor Sagalovsky: So if you subscribe, which, which, which everybody should, because one, one order is not going to do it for you unless you're buying a pallet for the year or a whole bunch ahead of time. So, uh, so you can subscribe. You just, you just set the frequency that you want. Right. So most people, get two cases a month. And that works for them. Some people get more. Some people want to drink it straight. Some people, economics, they try to stretch it out a little bit longer. So with the glass, you get six liters in a case. So depending on, a good strategy is to drink half a liter or a liter a day. Now, in the beginning, it matters less because there's only a certain amount of deuterium that your body will exchange and dump out. So if you're diluting it more in the beginning, you're still getting the benefit. As a month goes, or you can just go for it. Just start drinking a liter a day.

Andrés Preschel: Right. What you have here, you have, there's a, I see a light water mixed protocol. So you can take your personal water. Like I have gray water. I have a whole, you know, greenfield water solutions, filtration with structured water, et cetera. And so what I'll do, maybe I'll dilute it like a two or three to one.

Victor Sagalovsky: Yeah. And then you'll know exactly what you're, you can, you could be, you could be clinical about it. You could be scientific. Okay. You could be a meth, methodical about it right some people are and some people aren't and so meaning that if you dilute the water outside you know exactly at the end of the day you could say 100 i consumed water that was 130 ppm because i took this much light water and i mixed it with this much of this water and so i know what i have Other people, they just wing it. They say, oh, I'm going to drink a half liter or a liter of DDW and then whatever else I drink during the day, I'm sure I'll be somewhere at 120, 130. So that's kind of the two strategies that people take. Some people take a strategy where they even measure themselves before they start. They want to know their deuterium level. In fact, for you, I'm happy to send you a test for you to get a baseline. I would love that.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Yeah, that'd be great.

Victor Sagalovsky: And do I need to get that? Yeah, go for it. Sorry. Oh, and then for three months later, you test again and see. Let's do it. Yeah.

Andrés Preschel: Cool. And then do I need to get the Keantone as well?

Victor Sagalovsky: If you don't have a mineralization strategy, I highly recommend it.

Andrés Preschel: I do in the filter that I've got. So if I want to dilute this, I've got that in the other water. So I hope that that is the case.

Victor Sagalovsky: I really encourage you to read about Keantone. and find out more as far as the benefits of having trace minerals in the proper ratio in your blood that you need. Now, I think that people, Rene Cantone, who created this product in the late 1800s, he said, in order for life that started in the ocean to be successful on land, it had to take the ocean with it. So, while people are more mineralized You could see it in their skin, you could see it in a lot of ways when they were living closer to the ocean. So if you spend a couple of, I don't know, maybe you surf, maybe you swim, but if you spend 15 minutes, half an hour in the ocean, you're getting trace minerals. in your body. But if you're not getting any, just living on land with eating food that is incomplete, then ketone is a great intervention. If you can't afford ketone, then a little Celtic sea salt will do the trick too. We need those trace minerals because we burn them like fuel. And if we get deficient in them, then we have symptoms and we may not necessarily, it may not be easy to diagnose what the symptoms are and they're just as simple as mineralization. So Kentone is a great product for that. Obviously you have a strategy too for proper mineralization, so I think I think that's important because I've seen I've seen I've seen miracles happen on just restoring somebody's not only not only the right minerals but the micro microbiome mineralization of the microbiome so it shouldn't just because it's a simple product and it's plasma seawater, the chemistry and the science on it is very profound and they have isotonic and hypertonic and you take them at different times for a slightly different effect. Yeah, but if you live, if you spend time in the ocean, then, you know, the reason I, I moved, I lived in Hawaii for a long time, decade and a half, and I was in the ocean every day. And then when I moved to LA, I felt like I was being demineralized. So, so I discovered this, uh, phenomenal, phenomenal, um, mineralization intervention known as kentone marine plasma.

Andrés Preschel: And, uh, there's really nothing like being in the water.

Victor Sagalovsky: There's not.

Andrés Preschel: I'm in the water for six to eight hours every other week, you know, freediving and spearfishing. Yeah, see, so you're well mineralized. Lovely. Nice to know.

Victor Sagalovsky: You go spearfishing off of South Beach there?

Andrés Preschel: I go everywhere. I mean, I don't do too many shore dives nowadays. I typically, you know, I go out with my friends on their boats and we'll go anywhere, you know, from up in West Palm Beach down to Key West. Last weekend, I was in St. Petersburg and I travel all over the world to free dive and spearfish. I mean, in October, I'm going to be fishing. I'm going to be hunting wahoo in North Carolina. I've been to Baja Mexico, Panama, the Bahamas, you name it. I've been all over freediving and spearfishing.

Victor Sagalovsky: That's my main sport. I've only done that in Hawaii. I haven't been there just yet, but I can't wait. There the lobsters don't have claws, so it's kind of like cheating. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I didn't know. I didn't know. That's fantastic. Yeah, we're the aquatic ape. So if we have a relationship with the ocean and the sea, our lives are infinitely made better by that relationship.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah. And so you mentioned Gerald Pollack. Is it a B?

Victor Sagalovsky: Dr. Gerald Pollack, yeah. He will be a speaker at the Water Symposium. No way. Yes. Wow, that guy's a living legend. Oh my God. He's a living legend. Yeah, he's a genius. He's incredible.

Andrés Preschel: I have to be there, man. I have to be there. Send me the details.

Victor Sagalovsky: Yeah, watersymposium.org. Very simple. Cool, that's right. Watersymposium.org. We will have Jack Cruz there as well. No way. Dr. Jack Cruz. No way, get out of here. I'm interested in people that are questioning and breaking the paradigm.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah. Wow. Jack Cruz is going to be there, that's incredible.

Victor Sagalovsky: And these are the people that are doing that.

Andrés Preschel: Oh my goodness. I will see you there, my friend.

Victor Sagalovsky: I'll be there. We'll see each other before that in Miami, but yeah.

Andrés Preschel: For sure, for sure. And look, my last question for you here is, if you could put a word, message or phrase on a billboard anywhere in the world, I think I know what it would say, but I want to hear from you. What would it say and where would you put it?

Victor Sagalovsky: That's a good one because I have so many of these little quotes that are just running in my head.

Andrés Preschel: You have to pick one.

Victor Sagalovsky: I have to pick one. Well, I think I love this quote from St. Francis of Assisi. And he said, he said, preach constantly. Use words if necessary. I like that one. I mean, there's not, I probably, there's probably like, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll stick with that one, but it's not like top, I got like a top five, I think, but where would I put it? You know, somewhere where the most people would see it. On the moon. Yeah, there you go. I mean, yeah, he has a big billboard, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you got, if you, be kind, I guess, if you just need it to be big, bold letters, just be kind. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think that, you know, we're, Our primary interest while we're here is to number one, find something to eat and number two, don't get eaten. You know, so safety, safety is the thing that when we have safety is when we make evolutionary leaps in consciousness and in our And human evolution is based on our ability to feel nurtured and safe. And if we do that, then we evolve much faster. So I think something along the line, reminding us constantly on the moon, it's like, just be a better human than you are. Try to do something good for somebody and and then it will you'll get something good done for you And then and then we're because at the end of the day, you know, we're just we're just like Just a short amount of time that we're here So if so, if you want it up if you want it to all make sense It all it only makes sense when you see yourself as part of this part of this loving organism of humanity and not the other stuff, not the other baggage that we insist on carrying. So yeah, be kind, do good, you know, all those cliches.

Andrés Preschel: And ironically, we don't want to vandalize the moon, but we mean this figuratively, right? We want to have this where anyone and everyone can see it.

Victor Sagalovsky: Just to have that constant underlying thought, because we're animals. We wake up in the morning going, you know, I can kill today. But we have this choice and we go, but I choose not to. I choose to do something else. I choose to do the opposite. I choose to plant something. I choose to nurture something. So we have the God and the beast within. So we are the sum total of our choices. So we make that choice every time we put something in our mouth, every time something comes out of our mouth. So, so, and, and God gave us hands for, you know, to grab, you know, the dolphins, they had, if you look at an x-ray of a dolphin's fins, they have five fingers. They had hands and at some point they said, these hands are going to get us in trouble. Let's go back in the ocean and go back into the dream time. They just didn't figure that somebody else would evolve with these hands to make life hard for him. So use, use these, use these things that make, that, that make thoughts manifest very, very wisely, you know? So that's, that's my message to myself and that's my message to anybody that's listening.

Andrés Preschel: Well, you're a well of wisdom with a 40-foot tower on top, spewing this deuterium-depleted water. Thank you so much, man. This has been wonderful. Thank you, Andres. And I'll make sure to link all the studies, your products, your website, and everything else that we cover on the show in the show notes for folks that want to tune in. And I'll make sure to communicate with you so that we get the little discount code in there as well.

Victor Sagalovsky: Yep. I'll do that right away. Call my team and get them on it. And yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Thank you. I'm very excited to see your journey at Deteriorative Depletion, especially as it applies to freediving. This is going to be fun.

Andrés Preschel: Lovely. Lovely. I think I'm going to document and make a cool video, and it'll be like a part two to this, and we can discuss it on another podcast.

Victor Sagalovsky: I'll see you at Ultimate Fitness in Miami on the 28th. I'll be speaking on the 28th and we'll see you and hopefully everybody that's going to be in Miami for the show there.

Andrés Preschel: Sounds great, man. Looking forward. Take care. Thank you. Take care. Cheers. So that's all for today's show. Thank you so much for tuning in today. For all of the show notes, including clickable links to anything and everything that we discussed today, everything from discount codes to videos, to research articles, books, tips, tricks, techniques, and of course, to learn more about the guest on today's episode, all you have to do is head to my website on dresspreschel.com. That's A-N-D-R-E-S-P-R-E-S-C-H-E-L.com. and go to podcasts. You can also leave your feedback, questions, and suggestions for future episodes, future guests, so on and so forth. Thanks again for tuning in and I'll see you on the next one. Have a lovely rest of your day.