Know Your Physio

Michael Donovan: Biohacking, Building Luck, Spearfishing, and The Science of Human Potential with Andres Preschel

• Andrés Preschel • Episode 125

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In this special episode, I switch roles and step into the guest seat, giving you a behind-the-scenes look into my own journey—from biohacker and performance coach to someone deeply passionate about living life with intention. I share the experiences that have shaped my philosophy, from my love of spearfishing and being in nature to blending science with real-world application to help others unlock their full potential.

I also talk about the power of key performance indicators like HRV and VO2 max, and how they’ve transformed not only my life but the lives of my clients. This conversation touches on the importance of balancing data with intuition, the lessons I’ve learned through coaching, and the way I strive to integrate nature, science, and human connection.

If you’re interested in how to elevate your health and performance, or simply curious about the personal side of my journey, this episode is for you. I share insights from my own life, the science I live by, and the small but meaningful changes anyone can make to live a healthier, more intentional life. Join me as I open up about the philosophy that drives me—both on and off the mic.

Key Points From This Episode:
Intense focus and interests. [00:05:29]
Passion or discipline? [00:09:49]
Importance of in-person connections. [00:14:09]
Positive reframing of failures. [00:24:35]
Shedding light on oneself. [00:32:11]
Key Performance Indicators in Health. [00:35:15]
Expectations and happiness equation. [00:44:32]
Podcasting as a connection tool. [00:55:07]
In-person connections and rapport. [01:02:03]
Breathwork and personal experiences. [01:10:42]

Looking to discover your science and optimize your life?

APPLY FOR HEALTH OPTIMIZATION COACHING
https://calendly.com/andrespreschel/intro-call-with-andres

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Click HERE to save on BiOptimizers Magnesium

People

Michael Donovan

Joe Rogan

Dr. Joel Kahn

Peter Attia

Ben Greenfield

Stacy Sims


Books and References

"Atomic Habits" by James Clear

"The Almanack of Naval Ravikant" by Eric Jorgenson

"Die with Zero" by Bill Perkins

"The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk (mentioned indirectly in context with mental and physical health)

Support the show

Andres Preschel:
It's important to set big goals but I think it's very important that they are specific and once they become specific you can do a better job of breaking them down so that it's realistic and attainable for you. A goal that a plan is just a wish, when you set these big audacious goals that even if they are specific there might be a little bit of self-sabotage that kicks in because deep down you don't think you're actually capable of accomplishing that goal. So you're going to get in your own way and it's going to be like a self-fulfilling prophecy that takes place. But unless you have the steps, you're just going to be crossing your fingers at that point and wishing for the best. To me, there's really no such thing as failure. It's just a lesson that maybe I haven't yet had the wisdom to gain something from, but there's certain moments in time where I just get like a download, right? And I can reflect back on something that happened years ago. And I go, wow, you know, there was a lesson there. And in fact, I did gain something from it. And here's how I'm going to do things differently in the future. So I constantly have that conversation with myself and I make sure to hold my clients accountable and show them how to have that conversation with themselves to keep them generating positive momentum. There is only one supplement that I think almost everyone on this planet should be taking, and that's a full-spectrum and highly bioavailable magnesium supplement. Because, well, let's face it, ever since the industrial revolution, our soil has been depleted of magnesium, and therefore our food is depleted of magnesium. And on top of that, our modern environments, which are inherently overstimulating and stressful, are constantly depleting our body of magnesium. And unlike other nutrients, this is not something that your body can produce on its own. It literally needs to get it from the diet. And one individual kind of magnesium alone is not enough. You actually need seven different kinds to support over 300 biochemical reactions that help regulate your nervous system, red blood cell production, energy production, managing stress and emotions, etc. And so the folks at Bioptimizers have made it very easy and convenient to add back in what the modern world leaves out. They've created Magnesium Breakthrough. Now I've been taking this for the past two years and the biggest benefits that I've seen are related to my evening wind down sessions and my sleep. I tend to be pretty overactive in the evenings, just totally overthinking everything that I do. And this has helped me wind down and get more restorative, more efficient to sleep. So I wake up feeling way more refreshed, more energized, more clear, more ready for the day. And the way that I see it, sleep is upstream of essentially every other health and wellness related habit and decision. Because if you're sleeping better, automatically you're going to have more regular cravings, you're going to have higher insulin sensitivity, you can derive more of all these inputs like fitness, right? You make more gains, you gain more muscle, you burn more calories, and you wake up feeling refreshed so that you can do it again and again and again. And then beyond the fitness, you have more energy to go for a walk, to do fun activities with friends. You are less stressed, so you can socialize anxiety free. And you're also going to be retaining, refreshing and refining your skills and information much, much better. So you won't forget any names. And, yeah, I mean, like I said, over 300 biochemical processes that you're supporting with magnesium. Then sleep, I mean, wow, better sleep is just a better life in general. So, I found that extremely helpful on a personal level and I'm sure that you guys will find it helpful too. Your mind and body and maybe even your spirit will thank you. So anyway, if you want to get a sweet little discount off of this amazing, amazing magnesium supplement from Bioptimizers, all you have to do is visit the show notes. So you scroll down right now, takes just a couple seconds and boom, you'll have access to all seven different kinds of magnesium that your body needs. All you have to do is hit the link and use code KYP from Know Your Physio. KYP. That's all. Enjoy 10 to 22% off depending on the package you choose, whether or not you subscribe. I'm obviously subscribed because I don't even want to think about whether or not I'm going to get this essential supplement in the mail. And yeah, hope you guys enjoy that awesome stuff. And that's all for now. I'll see you guys on the show.

Michael Donovan: Awesome. So I like to start with three things. The first is an intention. So what would make this conversation a win for you?

Andres Preschel: It's a great question, man. I think, you know, Really having the chance to be present in this moment with you and Do a great job of answering all these questions and make sure that I'm answering them not just for you But for anyone who might be tuning in to make sure that they feel like they're a part of this conversation and like they can Take as much value away from it as possible. Awesome.

Michael Donovan: I love actionable actionable things. I'm sure we'll touch on a lot of actionable Items the second is is all about you. What's your walkout song? What's my walkout song?

Andres Preschel: Yeah. Um, like if I'm going to, you know, establish a presence of sorts, uh, make a statement.

Michael Donovan: Yeah. Maybe you're stepping on stage or stepping up to bat or whatever. Like what, what pumps you up? What puts you in the zone? Okay.

Andres Preschel: Well, for those who know this song and appreciate this kind of music, they're going to love this answer for those who don't, which is probably 99% of people tuning in right now. They're going to be like, what the fuck? like this guy that this song is maybe not so consistent with what I imagine this guy's all about and what he preaches and everything it's because it's a very vulgar song and the song is territorial pissings by nirvana okay And it's a very intense song, but for the longest time, my parents have described me as being very intense. Since I was a kid, just been very, very intense. I have an intense focus. I'm just an intense guy. My activities, my hobbies, everything I do is really, really intense. And on the flip side of that coin, the things that don't really capture my attention I'm like, I can be the laziest person in the world until we start talking about something that actually interests me. Like, otherwise I'm the total introvert. I'm just completely turned off, uh, quiet, keep to myself. But when it comes to the few things that I really, really, really love, really care about, I'm really, really intense. And I think that song captures that intensity quite nicely.

Michael Donovan: Awesome. Well, I think that's going to be my next question after my third part here. What are those few things? So you can think about that. But the last thing that I'd like to start off with is just some rapid fire questions. So some of these are like a this or that. So early bird or night owl? Early birds. Cardio or weights? Weights. You're down in Florida, so I think I know the answer to this, but summer or winter?

Andres Preschel: Oh, well, you think you know the answer, but it's funny because when it's summer, It's nice for like a week and then I'm like, man, I miss winter. And then when it's winter, it's like nice for like a week. I miss summer. Right now, I'm loving summer. Like, I love the summers, I've got to say. And it's also my birthday in the summer. And not that it's, oh, because it's my birthday, it's cool. It's like, I just, I love that people get to travel out here during this time of the year. You know, typically there's a little more flexibility in schedule. And so just getting together people that I care about, it's easier to do in the summer. And I think that's why I love this time of year the most, for sure. Just get to have fun, mess around, do a lot of good fishing, you know, the best.

Michael Donovan: Nutrition tracking or intuitive eating? Intuitive all day. Awesome. I think I know the answer to this too, but data-driven approach or gut feeling?

Andres Preschel: So I think it's a little nuanced because I like to use the data to build the backbone of what inevitably becomes intuition. I think if you don't have a backbone or you don't really dig into the science, the tracking, the data, then what is your intuition? Your intuition is a combination of what you've known your whole life and what just feels good in that moment. So I think that when you compare the subjective with objective data, then you can really make the best decision.

Michael Donovan: High-intensity interval training or steady-state cardio?

Andres Preschel: High-intensity interval training.

Michael Donovan: I love steady-state, but HIT is just… Passion or discipline?

Andres Preschel: So, it's a great question. You know, my heart says one thing, my brain says another, but I think there has to be a clever combination because, you know, actually there's a great quote that I think captured this really nicely. I think it's by an author, her name is Elizabeth King, and it goes, process saves us from the poverty of our intentions. so you know setting an intention having passion that's that's beautiful that's poetic it's great but it's simply not enough you know you might have a mission you might have a passion you might have an intention but unless you have a process unless you have discipline built into that then it's just an idea you know you have to take action you have to follow a system and you know if we look at habits, if we look at systems, if we look at change in an individual, the deepest level of change is at the core of our identity. And that's something that I took away from that book, Atomic Habits by James Clear. It's an incredible book. And I think that if we're going to talk about upgrading our identity and using science and becoming better versions of ourselves, We've got to incorporate all of that. It has to come together. And I think that blend is something that can and should exist in our identity if we are to enable greatness in our lives.

Michael Donovan: Beautiful. Well, this next, next question is kind of a segue from that. Big Herial dishes goals or incremental steps?

Andres Preschel: These are all like, at face value, you want to say one thing, but you dig a little deeper. You've got to appeal to both in a way. So I'd say it's important to set big goals, but I think it's very important that they are specific. And once they become specific, you can do a better job of breaking them down so that it's realistic and attainable for you. As I say, a goal without a plan is just a wish. And sometimes when you set these big audacious goals that even if they are specific, Um, there might be a little bit of self-sabotage that kicks in because deep down you don't think you're actually capable of accomplishing that goal. And so you're going to get in your own way and it's going to be like a self-fulfilling prophecy that takes place. And, and, um, I think it's important to set those goals, but unless you have the steps, it's, you're just going to be crossing your fingers at that point and wishing for the best. Um, so I think it's important to have both.

Michael Donovan: Yeah, totally. All right. This one's an easy one. Kobe or LeBron?

Andres Preschel: Kobe all day. Biggie or Tupac? Biggie or Tupac? Biggie.

Michael Donovan: All right. And, uh, last one. What's your go-to guilty pleasure cheat meal?

Andres Preschel: Go-to guilty pleasure. Um, so I would say chocolate, but I now have access to the best chocolate in the world. Affiliate disclaimer, I am affiliated with this brand because I love chocolate so much. You know, my bloodline is Venezuelan. We love chocolate, man. And this chocolate, it's called the Conscious Bar. It's made of two ingredients, cow and dates, has the lowest heavy metals of any bar in the world. It's direct trade, fair trade, organic. The entire packaging is compostable, biodegradable. It's simply the best. And so you can really indulge freely with this chocolate. And I'd say to answer the question, my guilty pleasure is having a lot of this chocolate, like a whole bar in one sitting. I just absolutely love it. My girlfriend, she has a nickname for me. She calls me, uh honey badger because i do have a sweet tooth i love sweet stuff um but typically that's like you know maple syrup and raw honey and some good chocolate like it's not processed foods um so i definitely have a sweet tooth but it's like you could say it's a natural sweet tooth um yeah i love i love sweet stuff And I love rewarding myself after doing something challenging with sweet stuff. I think it's a great way to add some positive reinforcement and to replenish your glycogen stores as well.

Michael Donovan: Absolutely. Awesome. Well, let's talk about the other things that you're really passionate about. You, in my words, you, you kind of said sometimes you're like a little bit distanced and maybe even aloof and then when you're, when something comes up that you're really passionate, you're totally plugged in. So what are those things that, what are those things that get you really fired up?

Andres Preschel: The things that get me really fired up, I would say number one is being in someone's presence and really feeling like you are fully engaged in that moment and you can really see eye to eye even if you don't agree on the topic or what's being discussed. And that's not about agreeing with somebody. It's just about really being a good listener and feeling like you're being listened to. I think it's something that's so rare nowadays because everything that we do or most of what we do is online or either we have the convenience of doing it online and yeah, you know the online world has Evolved so much and it continues to evolve every single day but it is still very far and probably will never replicate just simply being in someone's presence and Feeling like that moment is really there for both of you and so sharing moments like that with people that I care about and people that I I can exchange value with, not for the sake of exchanging value, but just to enjoy that moment for what it is. It's so raw, it's so real. And I think, obviously, the pandemic has allowed us to appreciate this in almost like a new way. But besides that, in the current events of the past couple of years, for a very long time when I was very unhealthy, taking focus pills for school. I was also very socially isolated and I was in my own world all the time. So I think when I get to connect to people today, it's a more confident version of myself and it's a version of myself that is still in a way in touch with the older version of me that didn't know how to have a conversation, that didn't know how to connect and I was too afraid to even if the opportunity was there. So, that's something that I absolutely love to do and it's great that I can do that while also leveraging my specific knowledge, which is the second thing that I'm most passionate about. It's the science that makes us who we are. It's your physiology. And unfortunately, we're brought into this world with that knowledge. And unfortunately, You have to go out of your way to learn it most of the time, at least it's the current format, right? It's like if you want to learn about science, you have to go and be a scientist. You have to go get a degree in science or even a master's. And I did that because I wanted to get to know myself better and I felt attached for my body. And it's given me a superpower, not just because I understand my body and what it needs to thrive, but because I've also been in the position on being detached. And that's an added layer of credibility. Now, not only can I speak on behalf of the experience that I gained, but also having been in that position where I felt disconnected. And that's the second thing I'm most passionate about is physiology, psychology, nutrition, and neuroscience, exactly what I studied in school. And what I get to learn every single day, applying, which is definitely where I gain the vast majority of my wisdom from, helping all kinds of people to apply this and seeing how the science and the knowledge and the content fits into their individual context, because that's really where it's powerful. That's really where it's valuable. The third thing I'm most passionate about, and in some circles, I would argue it's the number one most important thing to me, I love fishing, man. I'm a huge, huge, huge, huge fisherman. I would say everybody nowadays knows me for my knowledge and experience in health and fitness and all that. But objectively speaking, what I am the best at in my life is being a fisherman. it's crazy and there's a lot of metaphors you know there's a lot of ways that these two things go uh hand in hand right like i love being outside i love fishing up with other people i love the camaraderie for example and spearfishing and free diving having your buddies back knowing that you can depend on somebody else um just coming together to you know to to enjoy an experience that is almost like embedded in our DNA that we only really get to express in a situation that is to an extent life-threatening. I know freedive spearfishing is extremely dangerous but in order to be the best hunter that you can be you have to be so relaxed so present and so connected with nature and the environment so that you know the the the environment or the fish in this case gets curious about you approaches you And then you take a very intentional shot, dispatch the fish, and bring it home for a great story and a good dinner. And then yeah, fly fishing. I love tying flies. I love going all over the world fishing. And yeah, man, it's everything I love all in one. I love fishing. It's not about catching the fish. That's just the bonus point. It's just a place where I can be. and enjoy the environment and be in this like flow state and admire the beauty in nature. The last thing I'll mention here, and you'll notice that there's a lot of overlapping themes. I love video games, man, like video games. So for 10 years, I was medicated on Adderall, which is, by the way, the best thing that's ever happened to me. It was horrible for my health, but it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. We can get into that. Um, you know, I had a stutter. I was super anxious. I was restless. I was extremely skinny. I was skeletal, really. And my escape was online, you know, multiplayer, MMORPGs, massive multiplayer online role playing games. And that's where I really felt like confident and where I could connect with people and have fun. It was like a whole world. And, and dude, I am, I'm extremely good at video games. And I still play them from time to time. It's like my way to mentally check out after a long day of work. Even if you follow your passion, it requires effort, it requires discipline. It will wear you down. And that's fine. That's great. Those are the reps you have to put in to see a positive adaptation and to grow as an individual and derive wisdom and get better at what you do. But hey, you know, fun is great too. And I like, uh, you know, fishing and video games sometimes to mentally check out everything else and find my peace of mind.

Michael Donovan: Awesome. I think my trifecta is like being outside with other people active, uh, doing anything active. And do you ever, uh, if, if the physiology piece is, is sort of related to coaching, I wonder if you ever bring the trifecta together and take a coach, a Tokyo coaching client fishing or play video games with the client. Video games.

Andres Preschel: No, not yet. Oh, actually, actually, To an extent. I've actually met people on video games that end up becoming close friends, part of my community, and some have even become clients. So it's like flipped. But yeah, I've definitely done loads of spearfishing, diving with my clients. And it quite literally is a way to make them healthier. mentally, physically, spiritually, you know, so, yeah, of course, I definitely, I love combining, in fact, something that I wanna do right now, something that I'm really focused on is, is hosting retreats where I can bring all these three things together, well, aside from the video games, bringing, you know, the nature, the health, fitness, applied science and physiology, fishing, outdoors, like, all together into one experience and, That's something that I really want to create this year. It's a big goal of mine. I've done it a couple of times, but I really want to package it and offer this as a service for sure.

Michael Donovan: Awesome. We should talk about that. I'm also planning retreats and might be interesting to do one out here in Colorado. Nice. So I know you've worked with a lot of high achievers from CEOs to World Series of Poker players to Canadian Open champions. What makes you, Andres, an extraordinary coach?

Andres Preschel: That's a question that I'm trying to answer for myself. So I'll do my best here in trying to put some words to this. I would say it's, yes, being knowledgeable, both from a traditional format and having real world experience in your personal life. Because that's an added layer of credibility, like I said, right? Being able to put yourself in the shoes of the person that you want to help is extremely important so that you have the trust and you have the empathy so you can deliver a message that is beyond the words and the knowledge. It really speaks to someone at their core. I think that's definitely valuable and I think that makes me a great coach for sure. Living the life I preach, you know, at the end of the day, it's just something that you have to do and something you have to get better at also. And I'm completely, you know, totally committed to that process. I'm trying to get better every single day. I want to make sure that every day challenges me in some way that I really can reflect on that to gain something from that challenge. I like to do what I call positive reframing, which is even if I have a bad experience or if on paper I failed at something and I fail all the time. I would only really consider that a failure if I didn't take something away from it or if I didn't think hard enough to gain something from that or to learn something from that experience. So to me, there's really no such thing as failure. It's just a lesson that maybe I haven't yet had the wisdom to really gain something from. But there's certain moments in time where I just get like a download, right? And I can reflect back on something that happened years ago. And I go, wow, you know, there was a lesson there. And in fact, I did gain something from it. And here's how I'm going to do things differently in the future. So I constantly have that conversation with myself and I make sure to hold my clients accountable and show them how to have that conversation with themselves to keep them generating positive momentum. I was actually having a conversation about this with a friend of mine yesterday, something that I think I'm really good at, and I'm still trying to figure out the best way to say this so that it sounds clear and concise. I think I'm really good as a physiologist and coach. I think I'm really good at seeing the big picture and then going to the fine details, the data, the small stuff and showing people how that fits into the bigger picture. The reason why I I'm really trying to find a way to express this super, super clearly. And that might sound clear, but I feel like there's something that I'm not saying there. And it's just, as you can tell, it's difficult to put into words. It's because, like, let me put it like this, you know, there's certain people in the health, wellness, and even medical field that are specialists and they can dig into the intricacies of a very specific subject. I would say I'm like a specialized generalist. I still study these different realms that allow me to see an individual and the human body and our science as like a big picture. So for example, I studied the human body as far as exercise physiology. I studied psychology, nutrition, and neuroscience. Actually, I did my master's in nutrition and physiology. help the human performance. Unfortunately, because of COVID, it never got my degree. Couldn't finish the program because classes stopped running, but I think it was still valuable enough education where I can say I did a master's, but I don't have the degree, fortunately. But I'm now doing another master's in neuroscience. Anyway, the point is that because I have experience in these different realms, I believe that it really helps me capture the big picture and who somebody is and how they live their lives and what habits they can take on that will make a meaningful difference in that big picture. I think because we have this mass access to information and social media, it's very easy. The algorithm appeals to novelty. and there's incredible content everywhere, but content only really becomes valuable when it fits into your unique context. And most people don't know how to appreciate what content works best and what their context even looks like. in order to apply that in a way that makes sense for them and actually gives them what they're looking for. And I think that's something that I'm really good at, is figuring out what is really important for somebody, why, and how are we going to change the small habits to improve this big picture and get closer and closer to that ideal outcome. And then outside of that, man, I mean, I just wanna give a huge, huge shout out to my parents and my family because they have helped me appreciate, I mean, that's a prerequisite to all this, to all my experience and all my passion and everything, you know, who I am and what I do because from a very young age, I mean, as far back as I can remember, you know, my parents were in the medical field and as far back as I can remember, you know, the main conversations that we were having in our dinner tables where we all came together, was they were about how rewarding it was to help others through science. You know, my dad is an eye surgeon and my mom's a dentist. And so they help people see and they help people smile. Like it gives me goosebumps just saying that, like that's so important. And my parents are extremely passionate and extremely disciplined. And that's just something that I, it's just who I am, you know. My grandfather, my mom's dad actually, You know, both of us are the family. We have doctors and physicians. My mom's dad is somebody that came from absolutely nothing, nothing. And through, well, hustling and being a smart guy, being in the right place at the right time and working extremely, extremely hard, you know, he became one of the best surgeons in South America. He's a plastic surgeon and an eye surgeon. And he's the most humble guy I've ever met in my life by a long shot. And so it's just like growing up in that environment, helping people is just something, it's just the way that we live our lives and applying science to do that is one way that we can enable a process that makes sense and that can be measured. But outside of what's measured, the human connection and empathy just goes such a long way. And also, they trained in Venezuela and being a doctor in South America is very different from being a doctor here. Over there, doctors have a much more intimate relationship with their patients. They really get to take their time and help somebody beyond what insurance covers and whatever. Um, and they've brought that, those values here to the US, you know, my dad has his practice and he, and he's worked extremely hard to have his own practice. Um, in fact, now my brother who went to school for business, he's helped my dad expand and grow his business. And anyway, the point is that, um, they've built their businesses around that human connection and that's something that I, It's making me emotional just to say this because it's something that I value so much and it's not until moments like these where I get to reflect and thank you for being such a great host and asking these amazing questions that I realize how embedded that is in my human experience and how important that is for me in order to be the best professional that I can be for my clients and to be an extraordinary coach. You know, that upbringing that I had and that experience that I continue to have is priceless.

Michael Donovan: When you were talking, I was thinking of that adage, people want to know that you care before they care what you know. And, you know, one of the common themes in the coaches I've talked to before is what makes them exceptional is that they believe so much in their clients, even more than their clients could even imagine they could believe in themselves. And the client just like, I got your back, you know, and I, I just, I, I feel that so much from you. So thank you for sharing all that. And I have an idea of a way that you could articulate what you do. I don't know. I'm a big performing arts, uh, fan who just bought tickets to Hamilton, uh, to see it again. And, I am adapting something that I heard, I forget who it was, he was interviewed on Tim Ferriss' podcast, but he talked about going to the balcony. And I think what you do is you sit in the front row and you go to the balcony with your clients. And so you're like, you're right there and you can see the sweat on their face and you can see the way the whole stage looks and where they sit on the stage. Or you look through a telescope and you look through a microscope with them. The ability to zoom in and zoom out is what you do really well.

Andres Preschel: Yeah, thank you. That's great. I love that. I'm going to start using that for sure. And yeah, you said it yourself, and I know that this speaks to your specific knowledge and experience. and also the people that you've interviewed and what you see in me. So I really appreciate the self-awareness and helping me put this into words. You have to see that light in people. And what I do for a living is I help people shed more light on themselves and on their communities and the stuff that they love to do. And sometimes it's self-love. You have to hold people accountable and be hard. Sometimes as a coach, Sometimes I'm just a listener and I let people just, you know, brain dump. And then sometimes it's being a good listener and being very, very difficult, being very blunt. You know, like being dynamic, I think is a great way to capture this because there's times where I'm, you know, just having a great time kicking it with my clients. And then I'm like very direct and I'm like, look, this is great. I see you. but this is what you have to do differently because you're getting in your own way or you're just doing this thing wrong or you're not saying what you said you would do. And I think that that is part of seeing the light in people is holding them accountable so that they can continue to shed that light and not get in their own way, which is the most common thing I'd say among people that I help, especially, you know, these high performers, most of them are entrepreneurs. They have a lot of freedom and flexibility and authenticity in their lives. And as a result, the person that gets in their way the most and that's the hardest on them is themselves. because they know themselves best. They know how to get in their own way. But similarly, they're also their biggest fans and supporters. And so sometimes I have to show them that and have to show them how to do things differently. So I really appreciate, you know, appreciate your help in expressing this.

Michael Donovan: I love analogies. So anytime I get to have an excuse to use analogies. So let's go to the other side of what you do, which is the evidence-based, data-driven side and the measurement. You mentioned using measurements and measuring things. I think also what I'd love to touch on is that balance of you can measure not necessarily accurately, but almost everything about your physiology now, right? And so there's, I think, too far you could go down that side and too many devices and too much data. And so I'm I'm kind of an essentialist, not a minimalist, but an essentialist when it comes to data. And if someone asks one of your clients, why are you measuring that? One of their friends, why are you looking at that? They would be able to tell them. So let's talk about that. What's your approach, your process, your take on using data and evidence-based practices?

Andres Preschel: So I'd say that a lot of what I do while it's based in data and it's based in evidence, you know, I really want to help people build that backbone and that intuition. And, um, the way that I do that is I typically focus on just three KPIs, key performance indicators that are the most relevant to someone in that point in their life. Um, so for example, typically, uh, the top three for most people that I work with, They are VO2max, HRV, and maybe body composition. And so, you can break each and every one of those into much smaller things, into smaller metrics, but those are the top three because they assume so much about everything else. Yes, you can get into the nitty gritty, whatever, but they are like these big overwhelming and themes you could call them in someone's health, in someone's performance, in someone's life. So for example, heart rate variability, it's a measure of your autonomic nervous system function and basically how adaptable and how resilient you are. And it's also the most subjective biometric. So yes, a higher number is generally better, but Really, the best way to make sure that metric is as valuable as possible for you is to look at the trends and make decisions based off those trends so that you can titrate in hormetic stress, things like exercise, sauna, cold plunge, fasting, you name it, all these health habits and biohacks, you call them. I like to look at HRV to see how adaptable somebody is and how we can titrate this in so that they can get the most bang for their buck. So with the smallest input, how do they derive the greatest adaptive response and be, feel, and perform their best? It's very easy to overdo these things just because they're objectively healthy. They can also be unhealthy. You can overdo them. And there's certain folks, and actually most people, already have so much stress in their lives that if they add something onto that, it's just going to overwhelm them. Sure, they can see resilience in the form of mental calluses, right? You can see their willpower center grow, like the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, right? That's like willpower center of the brain. You can elicit neuroplasticity in that center and develop that mental callus. But aside for the mental callous, you also want to grow physically, you want to grow spiritually. And so, I like to look at something like HRV to make sure that my clients are adding this stuff in when it really makes sense because they have a life outside of fitness and outside of health. They also want to have just a generally healthy and positive quality of life. And so that allows me to, again, see that big picture and make sure that they have peace of mind, but that they're also applying an effort that they get the highest ROI on. When it comes to VO2 max, that's the most highly correlated measure with longevity. It's a measure of your maximum oxygen consumption. In order to have a high VO2 max, you have to have high stroke volume, so the heart has to be strong. And with every heartbeat, you want to get enough blood to supply your body. You want to have good vasculature because the heart alone isn't enough to pump out all this blood. You know, the vasculature, all the veins and arteries that you have, they can expand and contract and they help the heart to deliver this oxygen. So, that's another thing that we're considering VO2max. And then there's the ability of your body to, you know, basically capture oxygen from the blood that's delivered and to use it as a fuel source. That's the AVO2 difference if you look at the thick equation for VO2max. So, you can break all these things down, but when we do, Yeah, we can elicit and apply very specific habits that work on all ends of this equation, but the overwhelming metric is VO2 max. And we know that if we can increase VO2 max like that, you will extend your lifespan and improve your quality of life. And by the way, as a disclaimer, I want to mention this. I typically describe longevity as it's not about extending lifespan for the sake of more moments. Like, oh yeah, I just want to live longer. Like, that's cool, but I see longevity as extending lifespan through the quality of the present moment. If you can optimize for this moment, for the way you feel right now, you're gonna live a long, healthy life, and you don't even have to think about how long you're gonna live. Because hey, you know, there's a black swan events where you can die. So, now this like future time that you're extending your lifespan by like this number, like it's irrelevant. So let's focus on how you feel right now and that's going to give us a guarantee that unless there's some catastrophe or whatever, you're going to live longer. VO2max is a great way to represent that and HRV and VO2max work together in that we can enable and engage in the difficult exercise um that we need to increase vo2 max and the best days to do that are days that you have high hrv now obviously we want to make sure that your sleep and recovery and nutrition are optimized so that you can improve your adaptability improve the function of your autonomic autonomic nervous system to interpret the stress and build resilience and adaptability so you know that's how these two things work together and if you've got those two things right you've got the you know nutrition the sleep and recovery down and all that um then your body composition is naturally going to change in a positive direction. And it's going to be like a secondary effect. Like a lot of people approach me because yeah, they want to get leaner, they want to be fit or whatever. But I show them how to find a lifestyle that makes sense, feels good, feels natural to them and their unique context. And then boom, a few months down the line, they look and feel amazing. But if we focus on that first, it just takes away from everything else. Sometimes you have to give people what they want in order to give them what they need. So I definitely do some of that. But I typically look at that KPI as like a secondary effect of the first two and there's more. I don't know if this fully answers the question.

Michael Donovan: So you got to give it a shot. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I love your definition of why it's important to increase VO2 max. And it reminds me of the financial book, Die With Zero, where you're not maximizing for retirement. Your net worth shouldn't increase over time. When we have time, health, and money, and generally latent life, we have more money, but we don't have the time and the health any longer. And so living in the moment, living for the present, and enjoying the quality of life now, not just preventing. And the idea of health span versus lifespan, it's gained a lot more popularity now.

Andres Preschel: If you don't mind, I can just amplify that statement with an example. So I mentioned my grandfather who came from nothing and he's a massive, massive success. In fact, I'll mention his name because there might be people tuning in that know of him or have been his student. It's happened to me now in three Uber, I've had three Uber drivers. I don't know how my grandfather's name came up or why, but one of them was in the military with him. You know, on helicopters and he was doing emergency medicine. He actually survived two helicopter crashes, believe it or not. He's been in prison before when he was at a very young age. He's lived a crazy life, man. But anyway, he's become massively successful. His name is Nayib Salomon. N-A-Y-I-B Salomon. I call him G, we call him G, like YI, that's a nickname. Anyway, my grandpa, he's had a couple of bad investments that he's made. And there was this one time we were in the car driving and my mom was expressing her frustration with these bad investments and bad decisions that he made and he got taken advantage of and it was really unfortunate. And my mom was worried about, you know, his finances. And I just had a moment with my mom where I was like, look, like this guy came from nothing. And he's like really lived life and enjoyed his life and invested in moments with people that he cares about in ways that 99.9% of people will never get the chance to do. So can you really be that hard on him? And I think we just had a moment where we're like, you know what? People make mistakes. And he knows how to live his life. And that really inspires me. Just to be completely transparent with you, yeah, my business crushes it. I get to help a lot of people and I get to really enjoy my life and invest in my experiences because of the people that I get to help. my priority is just to continue to enjoy that life with people that I care about. It's not to have more money in the bank or to die with a bunch of money. It's to really invest in those experiences. And my grandfather has definitely inspired me to do that. And yeah, I'll make mistakes, but all in the name of living life.

Michael Donovan: Love that. Came up on a call, it was on yesterday, the word expectations. I was expressing kind of a pain point in my life. And one of my coaches just said, Michael, the word that comes to mind is expectations. And I just was ruminating on that over the last 24 hours. And There's so much in that word. It's such a powerful word, you know, whether it's a body transformation or, or a financial investment, or, you know, what you, what you just, your broad hope and dreams of life. We can set our expectations low and widely suppress them, or we can set them super high and it always feel like a failure. So I don't know. It seemed kind of relevant to your grandfather's story.

Andres Preschel: Yeah. And I have an equation for happiness that I live by, which goes hand in hand with this. It's extremely high standards plus extremely low expectations equals happiness because what that does is you know every small win you know, you feel so, so good about because you don't really expect it. If you have high standards, you have, you know, big audacious goals, right? But you don't expect anything in the process. So like, you know, I've had a lot of people, you know, I've had high expectations and I've let myself down. I've let a lot of people down. People have let me down. Life has let me down and it can really chip away at those big goals because you feel like you're losing momentum. Which is normal, but again, going back to positive reframing, I want to gain wisdom and I want to learn something from every experience that I have. And so, you have high standards, you're constantly seeking to learn. You're constantly looking out and setting these big goals. But in the process, you're positively reinforcing even the smallest wins that all of a sudden feel very relevant. And they can help you pick up momentum when it seems like nothing else is going your way. Um, so that's something that I live by and something that I sometimes have to really hold myself accountable on, but it's given me a lot of happiness. Just my baseline for happiness has gone up significantly since I started to live my life according to that equation.

Michael Donovan: Awesome. I love that. I want to talk a little bit about biohacking and, uh, I love the way I think we think about things in similar ways and they're able to really parse them apart. So biohacking is a big category and I want to think about it or talk about it in both a positive and negative sense, right? So there are a variety of reasons that people are drawn towards biohacking and some of that is that they're disillusioned with all the other things that are, that are out there that they've tried and they're seeking, you know, something, something different, something alternative. Um, there's also just getting morning sunlight and being grounded and getting time outside and these simple things that, you know, sleep, uh, routines and, and those kinds of things that we also you know, group into biohacking. So I'd like to talk about it in a balanced way, like we have all the things in this conversation. So the positives and the negatives of maybe the biohacking world in general, and then specifically your experience with things that might fall in the category of biohacking that you think have really worked and maybe some things that you've tried that you you it may be a waste of time or just like didn't work for you for sure I think when I first

Andres Preschel: came up on the the word biohacking it like I'd say most people you know it's very sexy it's very it appeals to this like almost like a this desire that we have to find a quick and easy solution to some of our biggest problems I think deep down that's what happens in our subconscious you know is when we hear biohack you know like oh our biology and you get to hack it and get what you want And you have this control, right? But I think that the problem that I have with biohacking, I think, honestly, the problem that if you look at this from the perspective of what we see on social media and just typically what trends look like, I think most like this audience, right, people on the receiving end of biohacking content and information, I think they're starting to mature and realize that biohacking isn't as promising or as sexy as it once was. Like, I have been in the realm of biohacking now for years. I've done all kinds of biohacks. I've recommended all kinds of biohacks. And the truth of the matter is, I think the vast majority are simply very, very expensive ways to elicit a state or a process that you can get for free in nature and very simply. So, you know, like grounding, sunlight, fresh air, clean water. Most biohacks, they just simply replicate that effect that we can experience in nature. I think more people need to really make a habit of getting out to nature. I understand that there is an appeal towards just getting the expensive device that works really well. And there are really nice devices and there's expensive ones and there's cheap ones that work extremely well and elicit an important physiological effect that gives you an improvement in your quality of life, performance. So there's something to be said about biohacking for sure. But I think that when we look at biohacking, we should ask ourselves the question of, are we making sure that we're pulling these endogenous levers in our body that make us feel good as naturally as possible? Is that embedded in our lifestyle? Are we living as much of a biologically consistent life as we can before we look at biohacking? um as far as like the more gadgety you know uh stuff goes so i think that at a baseline more people should do that more people should get into nature and just let their body do what it's good at and and and leverage the evolutionarily preserved mechanisms that make us who we are um and have made us who we are over the past millions of years you know and by the way i want to be specific here there's something that pet peeve of mine is people think like humans began like One or three million years ago. Yeah, maybe the human race homo sapien He's only a couple of million years old, but we had ancestors before we became homo sapien. So, you know these evolutionary evolutionarily preserved mechanisms And have come to life Since the universe is born, you know, and this technology is very very new. It's it's a it's a hair, you know, and and and so what I'm trying to say here is Yeah, the technologies that we've got access to now have come so far, but there's simply nothing that will replicate the human experience. And if we can be more like humans, then we're going to be more healthy without having to spend all this money and fulfill a promise that is It's just not optimal for us. So anyway, all that is to say, I don't want to, I don't want to seem like I have a negative, you know, I don't want to put a negative connotation on the word biohacking because I am a biohacker. I identify as a biohacker for sure. I help people biohack every single day. But the natural stuff is always number one priority. After that, I think when it comes to something like, when it comes to sleep, there's ways to biohack sleep that are absolutely great. For example, making sure that you have your room set to be as cool, dark, and quiet as possible. Sometimes it requires biohacking to do that. You have to wear a high quality sleep mask. You have to set your room to a cool temperature to replicate what you'd experience, I don't know, in a cave of outer nature, right? making it quiet and peaceful so that you can enable this parasympathetic state. Sometimes that requires earplugs, sometimes it requires white noise or pink noise. You know, certainly there are supplements that are absolutely incredible because they give us the nutrients that we simply don't get in our food nowadays. Things like magnesium, for example, it's just so hard to come by and it supports over 300 biological processes in our body. You know, it's absolutely essential. Most of our soil is depleted of magnesium and other nutrients. When it comes to doing things like, you know, red light therapy and ozone and hyperbaric oxygen, like all that's really, really great. And, you know, we were exposed now to stimulus that is modern, you know, negative stimulus that's modern. So, you know, all this EMF, the chronic stress that we're under, the instant notifications, the blue light, right, that has an influence on our body that didn't exist years ago, so we have to fight back with modern technology. So that's the kind of biohacking that I'm really into, but the stuff that replicates what you can just go outside and get in nature, that stuff, it's cool, but I'm not the biggest fan of it. So, as you said earlier, you're an essentialist and I think there's a blend and as far as that theme goes, there's a blend of getting the essentials in nature and the essentials to fight back against the modern world that we live in.

Michael Donovan: Absolutely. I think we're, we're really in alignment with that. You studied nutrition as well. And I think it's kind of like the whole food, not the overpriced grocery store, but the, uh, just eating whole foods, right. Versus taking supplements or, or eating processed foods that have, uh, fortified, uh, nutrients. Right. So do all of the things that you can do naturally. And then, layer onto that, but have a foundation of fundamental base of those things that you can, you can do naturally. Don't get red light. You know, if you can just go outside and get, get the benefits of being outside in nature.

Andres Preschel: Absolutely.

Michael Donovan: So, um, as we, uh, as we wind down, I'd like to talk about your podcast a bit. Uh, you host the know your physio podcast. Um, first I wanted to just ask, what's your favorite part of having a podcast?

Andres Preschel: My favorite part of having a podcast is connecting with experts like yourself and giving them an opportunity to have a conversation that allows them to distill their vast knowledge and wisdom into actionable steps that just about anybody can digest. making sure that the conversation allows for a description of the specific mechanisms that are taking place and how they work so that the actionable steps are rooted in a deep understanding of the individual science. And that's my favorite thing ever is getting to those key moments, those aha moments that, you know, Eureka moment, experiencing it myself on the show and bringing that excitement, making the sign sexy so that the person who's tuning in, who's eavesdropping in on this conversation essentially can feel a similar sense of satisfaction in that they're better able to understand how their body works and live their life better, differently, more intuitively. you know, at the end of the day, I love doing that. I love having those conversations and connecting with folks like yourself and yeah, helping people discover their size so they can optimize their lives. And it's gotten my foot in a lot of doors, as you can imagine, you know, having a podcast, like it's just, I love that it's a way to, it's like an excuse, like the podcasting etiquette I love because it's an excuse to have a conversation with someone that you really admire. Um, like otherwise, like, you know, good luck, right? It's like, maybe you'll come across that person at an event or maybe in the street or I don't know, anywhere else, but it's typically going to feel rushed. Their attention is going to be interrupted or it's going to be somewhere else, right? Like, I think Joe Rogan actually said this one time. He said, nowadays, podcasting is simply the best way to have a conversation because you're locked in for a period of time. There's no distractions. Nothing else matters. And you just get to talk. And then boom, share that conversation with the world because it is valuable. I love that. And I've met so many people that I admire so, so, so much simply because I have a podcast. obviously, the momentum of the podcast and how valuable it's been and become, that helps too, especially getting the big names on. But man, I can't tell you how many friends I've made, how my network has grown and expanded, the opportunities that I've gotten, the partnerships I've made, and obviously, the people that I've helped because I have the podcast.

Michael Donovan: It's been great. Absolutely. It's a great, it's a great medium for, for, for, uh, for all the things that you just said. And I think one of the things that I, uh, new in this, this journey, but I, I think my brain, I've noticed already my brain, uh, Just hitting record, it changes the tone of the conversation a little bit, and my mind is working in a slightly different way. We had a great conversation the first time we connected, but it was a different tone, it was a different level, it was a different depth. And I think just having the gravity of someone else is going to hear this, not just shooting the shit together and connecting. There's content, there's connection, there's creativity, all in one. So I love that. You said before we started that there were some guests in mind that you were wanting to have on. Who are a few of your dream guests?

Andres Preschel: a few of my dream guests. So right now I'm actually, I recently scheduled a podcast with Joe Alcon, who's one of the top cardiologists in the world. He's been on Rogan, I think, one or two times. And he's just a badass. I mean, he's vegan, plant-based. And so I think he'll be a very interesting conversation. Because I've had opposing views to veganism on the show multiple times and I really want to bring in an expert like himself who's just such a wealth of information when it comes to cardiovascular health and longevity and is so passionate about living a plant-based lifestyle. And he's just a powerful guy. So I'm really excited to have him on the show. Um, who else? Um, at some point I, I know that I'm going to have Huberman on. I don't know when it's going to happen or how, but you know, my whole life manifest destiny and, uh, I'm sure we'll get him on at some point. Um, I definitely want to have Peter T on the show. Um, we've had some incredible women, like I think for whatever reason, it's, it's, I don't know what it is, but I feel like all, a lot of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the dream, this is not funny, just saying it, the dream women I've had on the, on the podcast, um, I don't know, they're just like easier to connect with online and like through email for whatever reason. And so I think a lot of them have just been great, you know, um, But I want to get Stacey Sims on. Stacey Sims is a badass. My girlfriend loves her. She's learned so much from her, from female biorhythms to cycle seeking and for elite performance. She's just incredible. I really want to get her on the show as soon as possible. And I mean, there's a whole list, like I've got a list of like a hundred plus people, but those are definitely some of the big names I want to have on. I want to have Ben Greenfield back on. I feel like there's a lot of untapped potential that we need to tune into, you know, another opportunity. Yeah, like those are big names, but then there's a lot of people that, are just super low key that are experts in their own special way and aren't even on social media that I want to have on. Like there's this guy who is great friends with one of the guys that I just did one of my spearfishing trips. They work together. He's a pastor, a firefighter, and he's a woodworker. So he actually made my blue water spear gun. rather he worked on it with with with my friend and I had a chance to meet him North Carolina recently and He doesn't have a social media presence, but he's such a wealth of wisdom. I can't wait to bring him on the show Yeah, I mean I pop my head yeah And then, of course, I want to have you on the show. Absolutely.

Michael Donovan: Absolutely. I aspire to do a lot of in-person. We were talking earlier about connecting. There's just a different vibe when you're in person. And so I'm contemplating doing a tour next summer across the country, starting here in Colorado and maybe going up the… up the west coast and then, uh, and then down the east coast and, and across the middle of the state or the country as well. But, but just sitting down with people and, and, you know, who knows who I'll encounter along the way, you know, or just like, say, Hey, I'm going to be in, you know, LA or Seattle or, you know, Miami or DC or whatever. And, I have lots of connections at the National Institutes of Health and to sit down with, or go to a conference and go to where everybody is. So just go to a conference and record a dozen podcasts at a conference with a bunch of people. Because I just think it's a different vibe, a different conversation when you're sitting in the same room with someone.

Andres Preschel: Absolutely. Absolutely. This goes back to what I love the most, right, is being in someone's presence. And it's a differentiator. Like when you're in a room full of people, you might not be the smartest person, you might not be the best looking person, you might not be the most passionate, but if you can find a way to enable just a small degree of presence, like really be there with them in that moment, that small but significant connection that you have, is everything. It makes handing over a business card or a link or an email so much easier and it feels so much better. So, you know, outside of being in the places, finding that moment, that opportunity and just being cool, you know.

Michael Donovan: Absolutely.

Andres Preschel: And I can't wait for you to come down here, man. We'll get together a person in the podcast studio and make some magic happen.

Michael Donovan: Heck yeah. You mentioned your parents earlier, so I'll just give a shout out to my mother who is an amazing therapist and was able to hold that space in the way that we're talking about and just be present with clients for her career. And she always said, you can ask, Or you can, you can tell a client or, or ask someone anything. If you develop the rapport, you know, you can tell someone, you know, you're being a real asshole right now, you know, and not right off the bat. Right. But if you add that rapport and they'll say, you know, You're right. So developing that rapport, just being present is so valuable. I just have one final question before we wrap up today. I can tell you enjoy challenging and pushing yourself both physically and in business and in life. So with all you've accomplished to this point, what's next?

Andres Preschel: The other day I realized something. I realized that there's a big difference between growing for the sake of growing and having more followers and sharing more content with those people and expanding horizontally, if you want to call it that. And I realized that sometimes there's a trade-off between expanding horizontally and expanding vertically. And I think I made a decision and everything balances out eventually and there's growth that will continue to take place in both the vertical and the horizontal. But I think as of the past few months, I've definitely made it a priority to expand vertically. So focusing on the people that I've got in my community here in Miami, for example, and having deeper connections with them. I have a very intimate community on WhatsApp. It's a combination of super fans of my mission, like people I've captured through Instagram and podcasting, and also previous clients, current clients, friends, even some family members. It's like 130 or 140 people. And I've made it a thing to host regular events. We have conversations through WhatsApp every single day. So huge shout out to the, how do we call it? Know Your Physio, KYP Handsome Gentleman. We're all trying to live a life where we get to embrace authenticity and shed our light. And yeah, it's been absolutely great. So that's been a priority of mine, but I've actually got a couple of friends of mine now that are helping me get back into the social media game and do both things side by side, grow vertically and horizontally. So yeah, the community is my number one priority as far as growth goes. expanding both vertically and horizontally in that community. And yeah, I think naturally the business, my business will grow as a result, but that's priority number two. So yes, as far as that goes, man, I live a blessed life. A lot of people would consider me very lucky. I am very lucky. I was born lucky in a lot of ways, but I've also built my luck for sure. And I think that while I can always get busier and do more stuff, like having, continuing to maintain the freedom and flexibility that I have in my schedule, in my life is so important to me. And so I want to make sure that while I'm growing and the business is growing, that I, I maintain that because, you know, moments of, of, of boredom and these gaps in my schedule, while they're not necessarily productive for the business or whatever, they give me peace of mind that inevitably improves the quality of everything that I do and the connections that I make and the experiences that I share with people. And so Honestly, man, if you want to capture all this in just a few words, I want to just continue to iterate on the life that I have to shed my light, on the life that I have to shed my light on more people in a more meaningful way. That's it. That's the goal. I'm super satisfied with where I am, but I just want to keep the ball rolling and getting better every day. So, yeah.

Michael Donovan: Beautiful. When you said lucky, I just reread the almanac of Naval Ravikant. Yeah. There's three types of luck. Three or four. Four kinds, I think. I think the fourth was one that you're really doubling down on, which is being an expert in an area that people will come to you, right? You've created this space that will draw in opportunities. You don't have to go out and try to just discover things. And that's probably the most powerful type of luck to have. I hope you continue to be lucky in that way.

Andres Preschel: Thank you. Thank you so much. And look, as you can imagine, I think both of our egos got a little boost when Naval himself said in his book, It's actually, it's written by Eric Jorson about Naval. But anyway, Naval says in the book, it's quoted in the book, sorry to be so specific here, but I want to give credit where credit is due, that it's, you know, applied scientists have the greatest leverage, right? Like they just know how stuff works. So like they're infinitely powerful. I think both of us probably got a little ego kicking our ego there. But yeah, I mean, I love applied science. I love figuring out how stuff works and acquiring more specific knowledge. And the category that speaks to my life experience and the things that I'm passionate about is how you build your own luck. So yeah, definitely doubling down there.

Michael Donovan: Awesome. Well, I feel like we could talk for another hour. So maybe we need to do another episode sometime. Absolutely. Breathwork is definitely something that we did not dive into that I wanted to, but we ran out of time. So, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Where can people find you if they're not already connected with you?

Andres Preschel: Yeah, I just want to quickly say, man, it's been such an honor and pleasure. This is, without a doubt, one of the best podcasts that I've ever been on. And I know that we've had our glitches and technical difficulties, but either way, you've done such an incredible job as a host. being super patient, flexible, and giving me the space to share my thoughts and experiences and ideas. And I really can't thank you enough for that. On behalf of everybody tuning in, I just want to say thank you. And I definitely want to keep the conversation going and we will cover breathwork and many more topics in the near future. People can find me on know just about anywhere uh looking up my name Andres Prischel a-n-d-r-e-s p-r-e-s-c-h-e-l that's my instagram handle it's pretty much my handle everywhere um you know you can email me andresandres at knowyourphysio it's on my shirt But it's a mirrored image, so I'll spell it out. K-N-O-W-Y-O-U-R-P-H-Y-S-I-O dot org. That's my email. You can visit my website, addressprashall.com or knowyourphysio.org. And yeah, if you're ever in Miami and you like to hang out. And typically, you know, you can find me at South Point or one of the local coffee shops here. And yeah, please don't be a stranger. Reach out. Take advantage of my passion. I love to teach. I love learning. I love curiosity and I'm always happy to help.

Michael Donovan: Awesome. Thank you so much, brother.

Andres Preschel: My pleasure. Honor and pleasure. So that's all for today's show. Thank you so much for tuning in today. For all of the show notes, including clickable links to anything and everything that we discussed today, everything from discount codes to videos, to research articles, books, tips, tricks, techniques, and of course, to learn more about the guest on today's episode, all you have to do is head to my website on dresspreschel.com. That's A-N-D-R-E-S-P-R-E-S-C-H-E-L.com. and go to podcasts. You can also leave your feedback, questions, and suggestions for future episodes, future guests, so on and so forth. Thanks again for tuning in and I'll see you on the next one. Have a lovely rest of your day.