Know Your Physio

Eli Wininger: Running 251 Miles Through Moab, Pushing Limits to Elicit Neuroplasticity, and Pursuing Goals Beyond Yourself

• Eli Wininger • Episode 127

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In this compelling episode, I sit down with Eli Wininger, an ultramarathon runner, former IDF Special Forces commander, and a profound advocate for resilience and purpose. Known for his feats of endurance, Eli’s journey takes us from the battlefield to the grueling landscapes of ultramarathons, revealing the depth of his mental and physical fortitude. His latest achievement—a 251-mile race in Moab dedicated to each of the hostages taken on October 7th—demonstrates how he channels his experiences into a mission much larger than himself.

Our conversation delves into the mindset of an endurance athlete and the emotional significance behind Eli’s relentless pursuit of challenges. Eli opens up about the importance of finding a powerful "why" to fuel our actions, whether that be through personal growth, health, or setting an example for others. 

This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to deepen their understanding of perseverance, purpose, and the power of a committed mind. Eli’s journey is both inspiring and humbling, providing a roadmap for pushing beyond self-imposed boundaries.
 
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Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

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Key Points From This Episode:

Experience in conflict. [00:06:09]
Humility in warrior mindset. [00:12:51]
Intrinsic motivation in training. [00:17:27]
Neuroplasticity through challenging experiences. [00:24:24]
Embracing the pain cave. [00:30:08]
Collective joy through physical activity. [00:39:44]
The benefits of pushing limits. [00:46:11]
Breath work and athletic performance. [00:52:10]
Running for a greater purpose. [01:02:05]
Race strategy and aid stations. [01:08:47]
Finding purpose in suffering. [01:13:39]
The importance of breathing. [01:19:04]
Leadership accountability and credit. [01:22:45]
Mission for the hostages. [01:25:04]


People

Eli Wininger

David Goggins

Dr. Kelly McGonigal

Peter Attia, MD

Places

Bring Them Home Now Foundation

IDF Special Forces - Sayeret Egoz

Leadville Race Series


Books and References

How to Make Stress Your Friend

Neuroplasticity

WHOOP

Red Light Therapy

Support the show

Eli Wininger:
Find your wife. Find that higher purpose. Find some sort of connection, whether it's for your family, whether it's for whatever. If you're training for a marathon to, you know, just be healthier, right? Who gives a shit about the marathon? Just to be healthier and to push yourself mentally, that, you know, that's enough of a why. It could be to show your kid what is possible. That's a huge why for someone, right? For a dad to show their kid who's going to be on the sidelines and also see their dad training every day? Kids' brains learn by visually seeing, not necessarily by being told all the time, but by experiences. Everyone's got to have some other why that's going to push them, and it doesn't matter. The why doesn't have to be that you love running. The why doesn't have to be to complete a marathon. The why could be to show your kid. And you're showing your kid that you're more disciplined. You're showing your kid that health is important. You're showing your kid that that mindset is so important by doing a marathon. So everyone's got their own why, and once you find that, nothing's going to stop you. If you have a huge work project, or a huge development if you're in real estate, and you're thinking about this massive, massive, massive project, and you're trying to tackle it today, you're going to overwhelm yourself. But if you can break it down into small sections that are all bite-sized, doable, daily, or even hourly sections, you're like, okay, I just do this, and then I just do that, and then I do that, and then I do that. And when you add it all up, you've completed this incredible project. And it's the same thing with the race. Obviously, you have to train for it, you have big periods and all that, but it's the same thing. And that's the emotional part of it, is not being overwhelmed with the big picture. The second you let yourself be overwhelmed with the big picture, you're out of it.

Andrés Preschel: There is only one supplement that I think almost everyone on this planet should be taking, and that's a full-spectrum and highly bioavailable magnesium supplement. Because, well, let's face it, ever since the industrial revolution, our soil has been depleted of magnesium, and therefore our food is depleted of magnesium. And on top of that, our modern environments, which are inherently overstimulating and stressful, are constantly depleting our body of magnesium. And unlike other nutrients, this is not something that your body can produce on its own. It literally needs to get it from the diet. And one individual kind of magnesium alone is not enough. You actually need seven different kinds to support over 300 biochemical reactions that help regulate your nervous system, red blood cell production, energy production, Managing stress and emotions, etc. And so the folks at by optimizers have made it very easy and convenient To add back in what the modern world leaves out. They've created magnesium breakthrough now I've been taking this for the past two years and the biggest benefits that I've seen are related to my Evening wind down sessions and my sleep. I tend to be pretty overactive in the evenings. Just totally overthinking everything that I do And this has helped me wind down and get more restorative, more efficient to sleep. So I wake up feeling way more refreshed, more energized, more clear, more ready for the day. And the way that I see it, sleep is upstream of essentially every other health and wellness related habit and decision. Because if you're sleeping better, automatically you're going to have more regular cravings, you're going to have higher insulin sensitivity, you can derive more of all these inputs like fitness, right? You make more gains, you gain more muscle, you burn more calories, and you wake up feeling refreshed so that you can do it again and again and again. And then beyond the fitness, you have more energy to go for a walk, to do fun activities with friends. You are less stressed, so you can socialize anxiety free. And you're also going to be retaining, refreshing and refining your skills and information much, much better. So you won't forget any names. And, yeah, I mean, like I said, over 300 biochemical processes that you're supporting with magnesium. And then sleep, I mean, wow. Better sleep is just a better life in general. So, I found that extremely helpful on a personal level, and I'm sure that you guys will find it helpful, too. Your mind and body, and maybe even your spirit, will thank you. So anyway, if you want to get a sweet little discount off of this amazing, amazing magnesium supplement from Bioptimizers, all you have to do is visit the show notes. So you scroll down right now, takes just a couple seconds and boom, you'll have access to all seven different kinds of magnesium that your body needs. All you have to do is hit the link and use code KYP from Know Your Physio. KYP. That's all. Enjoy 10 to 22% off depending on the package you choose, whether or not you subscribe. I'm obviously subscribed because I don't even want to think about whether or not I'm going to get this essential supplement in the mail. And yeah, hope you guys enjoy that awesome stuff. And that's all for now. I'll see you guys on the show. All right, Eli, we're live, brother. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Stoked for it. Yeah, so before we get into who you are, what you do, and the amazing ways that you're pushing the boundaries of human performance for a very special cause, why don't we get started with a little disclaimer for the viewers? Because obviously, I try to keep this podcast as scientific and unbiased as possible, but I think what you're doing is representative of, you know, pushing the boundaries of human performance. And we have, I guess you could say, a bias in common, which is our religious beliefs and values and upbringing. And that's just, you know, what we were born into. And so before we get canceled, why don't you give us a little disclaimer before we dive in?

Eli Wininger: Sure. Yeah, so small disclaimer. I am an Israeli IDF soldier and special forces unit my team specialized in Fighting Hezbollah up in the north of Israel a lot of covert operations specialty missions as a commander and I Spent three and a half years there, and then most recently also went back and fought in the war against Hamas after October 7th. So I have experience with that. I know it's a super politically contentious subject right now. So my take on it is really just, I'm not trying to get into history. We have no intention of getting into that at all. Um, but it's more, whatever I say is more just experiential from what I've seen on the ground, if it even gets to that. Um, and you know, for me, I'm very personally connected to the hostages and to everything that happened on October 7th cause I have friends that are victims. Um, so a lot of my race that we'll get into was for them and for the hostages and had them at heart. You know, I have all the love and respect for Palestinians. um, anyone listening, you know, uh, full respect, full love for them. And, and, um, what I say is more my own, you know, personal upbringings taken my own personal experience, uh, but no harm or foul or anything against what's happening and what's going on.

Andrés Preschel: Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself. Wonderfully said. And again, thank you for your bravery and for your mission and everything that you're doing to raise awareness for a cause that we believe in and that many of our listeners believe in.

Eli Wininger: That was one of the reasons I did it for the hostages as well was because I tried to make it as politically not leaning for either side, right? If you're going and raising money for the IDF or FIDF or whatever it may be, then it becomes you're raising money for, for a military and for the war and for all this. But when it's for the hostages, I don't think anyone on either side wants to hostages in the terrorist things. So for me it was as neutral as it could possibly be.

Andrés Preschel: Thank you for helping us acknowledge that nuance. That is very important. Yeah. Um, so, you know, you're actually the third IDF soldier on my podcast. I don't know if you knew that. I say good things come in threes, but I'm sure I'm going to have many more on the show. Um, yeah, we had our real in the reality. One of my closest friends and Barack Harrison is another great friend of mine.

Eli Wininger: Yeah. Oh, you know, that's right. Same unit.

Andrés Preschel: Oh, no way. Same unit? Same unit. Yeah. Get out of here.

Eli Wininger: It's crazy because it's a very, very small unit. Oh, wow. At any given moment, there's maybe 150 to 200 active duty soldiers in the unit. And there's tens of thousands of people in the Israeli military. Wow. Maybe in total, we have like 5,000 alone out of hundreds of thousands of millions of Israeli soldiers.

Andrés Preschel: Wow, what a small world, I had no idea. Are you able to reveal the name of the unit and typically what the kind of operations look like?

Eli Wininger: Yeah, the unit's called Sayeret Egoz, so Egoz Unit. We're part of the, we were originally part of the brigade, the Golani Brigade, which is a very big infantry unit. And we were their highest special forces unit. A few years ago, I want to say, maybe eight years ago, five to eight years ago, they It took us, in addition to Maglan, which was the similar level of us, but for the Psan Chanim, the paratroopers unit, and the unit called Duvdevan, which is if anyone's seen Fauda, the writers of Fauda based the show off of this unit called Duvdevan. So they took the three of our units and put us into one brigade called the Commando Brigade. So it's the IDF's Special Forces Reconnaissance Guerrilla Warfare Unit. Each unit within this brigade has its own specialty. So Maglan has all sorts of special missiles and stuff like that. Duvdevan specializes in the West Bank. And then it goes, specializes in, um, reconnaissance and guerrilla warfare against Hezbollah. So if you've ever seen a lone survivor, um, it's, uh, does similar things to that over the years, the last couple of years, they've molded a lot of the three units to be a little bit more similar. Um, but yeah, it's, it's basically Israel's elite commando brigade. They have different units like which is like the Israeli Navy seal. Those are higher up than us. Yeah. So in terms of like the, the big, uh, mass force of an army that you could send in commando is going to be their special forces for that. It's that so, you know, both, you know, the unit, the brigade, the commando, it goes everything, did a lot of work both in the Gaza war, in the current Lebanon war, and then in previous wars as well.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, so I did Birthright Israel when I was in college, and you know how you get assigned a few soldiers to each group, and they help you, you know, assimilate to the culture and just kind of get engaged, and the soldier that was assigned to us, I'm not gonna reveal his name, but he was a member of Sheds at 13, and back then I had, yeah, back then I had no idea, you know, what that even meant, but when I learned what it was, I was really, I guess in the moment I was surprised, now not so much, I was surprised and impressed by how humble this guy was. And, you know, ultimately they're like SEAL Team 6 equivalent, right? They're super, yeah. Yeah, and it's just so… I'm so impressed by… how challenging something like that is, what you guys do, and the strength in being able to just stay so focused and so secretive. you know, just really honoring what the mission is all about. You know, it's not about how badass you guys are and how strong you are and showing off and being, you know, pretentious or arrogant, you know, these commandos, right? But you guys really have this inner strength that is so impressive and you guys are so humble. I wanted to ask you if you could speak on behalf of that kind of behavior and mindset and why it's so important to have that kind of mindset as a leader, as a commander, as a member of a tight-knit community, as warriors.

Eli Wininger: Yeah, I would say like a big aspect of it is really, I mean, there's a few, a few things I would say. One is while the stuff like Hollywoodized is very cool, sexy, badass, all that, at the end of the day, when you see it and you do it over and over and over again, It becomes normal, but also it becomes, you just realize it's important to do. It's not this crazy, you know, gung-ho mission thing. It's also not nearly as crazy as what the Hollywood missions are showing it to be like. So it becomes, you're like, oh, I didn't do that. If you think of the bigger mission, you're like, whoa, I did this whole crazy thing. But if you really bring it down to your particular role, it may sound very minute and boring and not that interesting. So that's one aspect of it. But it's super important to just realize the importance of the mission and what you're going after and to have that humbleness because I mean, I remember when we were going through training, our, our officer, we'd finished these big physical feats and we'd be, you know, by the end, Can you give us an example? Like it'll be a 50, it was like a 50 kilometer march. It's about 30 mile march. We had, I think it was 70% body weight. So I weighed 200 pounds at the time. So that's, you know, what is it? That's about 140 additional pounds on me. So I'm weighing the full 340 and we're going through the sand, soft sand for 50 kilometers with all this weight. And then the last, I think it was 10 kilometers. they open up the stretchers and they put 200 pounds of sandbags on the stretchers and you're taking shifts with your friends there's like probably eight people per stretcher and you know you're shifting or six people per stretcher and you're I think it was six and you're taking turns so now you've got an additional you know 50 pounds per person that each person's putting on their shoulders 400 pounds you're carrying through the desert 400 pounds of carrying through the desert or on the beach, on the south side of the beach, miserable. You've been up the whole night. You've, you know, it's, it's just painful. It's just pure pain. Um, and you're doing it to train for these much higher, bigger missions where you have to be quiet. You have to be secretive. You have to do all this because it's your life. You can't be, it's your life. It's your friend's life. It's the success of the mission. And you'd see, I mean, I remember seeing all these like marine things where you hear them chanting and you hear them do all that stuff. And you hear people like rallying each other and being loud and yeah, let's go, man. And we tried doing that the one, I think it was the first or second time. And our officer just looked back at us and was like, And the whole thing was just dead silent and it's all in your head.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, it's all about that intrinsic drive, that intrinsic motivation. It's all in your head.

Eli Wininger: You can look at each other, you've got the look, like you can see when someone's hurting, you look at him, you can give him the look, you can give him a little tap or something like that, but everything's dead silent. And that came into the mission. If we were going to be yelling and chanting and this and that in the hard times there, you would do it in the hard times in the mission. So your training is very symbolic of how you're actually going to act. And, and that was a big thing. It's just being quiet, being humble, being focused on the mission. And that's what was important. And it carries with everything. I mean, you'll see people getting into their own head about all these big, huge, crazy accomplishments. Whoa. Yeah, bro. We did it. Just like. Stay focused, stay steady. You do it. Next step, next step, next step, next step. That's all it is. Got the job done? Great.

Andrés Preschel: So this humble and focused attitude that you can appreciate about folks like yourself, it's because that's simply the way that you train. And the training is something that reinforces your human behavior on such a deep, deep level. You're gonna live your life every single day under those constructs, that framework, right? And so it's not about bragging about this or that because when you're in a mission, you're focused, you're quiet, and there's a much bigger thing that you're accomplishing. It's not about the little fist bump or the conversation you're hyping, it's just focus.

Eli Wininger: on what's important. It's 100% focus and seeing the bigger picture. It's all that.

Andrés Preschel: And there's really something fascinating to me about how this works from a neuroscientific, you know, psychological perspective, you know, when you look at things like, like dopamine and extrinsic motivation by what I mean by extrinsic is, you know, a lot of people, how many people do you know that need to have a special song on when they go and work out? When they're gonna go hit an intense set, they need a pre-workout, they need to have their gym buddy there with them, right? They need things other than themselves to accomplish something difficult, but ultimately they're taking away from the mental callous and focus they need to build internally, that intrinsic drive to do difficult things. And I think that if we look back at how you guys train, if anyone tuning into this applies more of that to their day-to-day and doing the important things they need to do to become incredible, then it's going to be ingrained in them in a way that they know they can depend on themselves and they know that their team can depend on them because they can take care of themselves and be so focused independently. And it really just goes down to these neural networks that you can hone in on and train, you know? A hundred percent.

Eli Wininger: And I mean, don't get me wrong. There's that like, I don't take pre-workout, but I pre-workout also scientifically as, you know, it's like jacked up with caffeine. So people are going to get an actual physical benefit. There's definitely a huge degree of placebo to it because they'll take the pre-workout and like 10 minutes later, they're ready to go. It's like, it doesn't hit that quickly. Yeah, caffeine takes a little longer to kick in. Yeah. But, but in general, like I do, there is that and people will have a better, a better workout. But I, but I couldn't agree more in the sense that they've become over dependent on it. And really the power of the mind is so much more powerful than, than, than people think we become.

Andrés Preschel: More powerful than a pre-workout, than C4, Red Bull and all that.

Eli Wininger: Oh my God. The power of the mind is like, I mean, in my race just now, I mean, I tried to strain myself or like wean myself off of coffee and caffeine for about three weeks before the race even started just because I knew that I wanted that punch. So it was a four and a half day race. I mean, we haven't talked about it yet.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, but no one knows how many miles. I think when they acknowledge this, they're gonna freak out. It's insane. It is really incredible. Something you can't accomplish if you were dependent on caffeine or any other stimulant.

Eli Wininger: It's all eternal. At one point, none of it works. So it was a 251 mile race in the Moab Desert. It took me about four and a half days. The official race is 240 miles. I added 11 for the hostages, because there's 251 hostages that were taken on October 7th. So I wanted to dedicate a mile to every hostage. Total elevation gain over the course of the race is about 30,000 feet, which is around like total, if you're putting it together, is around the height of Mount Everest. Obviously you don't get to that elevation, but in terms of feet climbed, it's almost the height of Mount Everest. Average altitude that you're at is in the six to eight thousand range getting up to ten and a half thousand feet So it's like full, you know, and you're they give you 117 hours Which is just under five days to complete it took me about four and a half days over the course of the four and a half days I slept about four and a half hours that comprised of a a one hour sleep at night on a cot and then about 15 minute just dirt nap is what they call it like on the on the side of the road. And like literally on the dirt, like on the trail, I'll just, you know, I just posted on my Instagram and just went pink whoosh into like, Yeah, you were covered in like a trash bag, like a black trash bag or something. That was another one. That was a nighttime one. Yeah. So the day ones, I would just go behind, like go like under a tree. So I'd have some shade, put my hat on or have my sunglasses on, cover my face, set my phone alarm for 15 minutes or 10 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever it was. have my pacer wake me up also and you just pass out, out like a light because you're so tired and then you wake up and you just keep going. The trash bag one was, it was freezing cold at night. So when you, uh, you can't just sleep at night, you're going to freeze. Um, you could like, you know, actually it could be dangerous. So he had these emergency bivy backs. So they're kind of like those metal, you know, those marathon blankets, but imagine a sleeping bag version of it. So you get inside that and it's super toasty inside. Like you'd be surprised how well these things work. And you just pass out for 10, 15, 20 minutes, wake up and you keep going. But yeah, so it was about four and a half hours of sleep. I don't recommend that to anybody. Definitely not good for the human body or strength or anything, injury prevention, anything, definitely not good. But you know, not good in terms of physical health. But I think the benefits you gain from these types of experiences, whether it's a 200 mile race, a marathon, a triathlon, an Ironman, crazy swim, whatever it might be for each individual, it has to be pushing those boundaries. It has to, when you sign up for it, when you think about it, you should feel scared to do it. And you should doubt yourself and other people should be like, whoa, what? Because that is going to put your mind to a level that you, and it's going to push your body and it's going to push your mind to go through pain to a level that you've never experienced before. And that level will continuously climb. So I always say some of the hardest things weren't necessarily that I've done weren't necessarily harder than things I'm currently doing. But for that time in my life, it was a bigger, bigger jump that actually has to push myself more than I've had to in some of the things I do now. So now if I go do a 50 miler, it's not that hard. But at the time, my first marathon or my first half marathon, even when I was 13 years old, that was like, that was one of the hardest things I've ever done. So putting my, pushing my mind through that. and telling my body that no matter how much pain I was in, or discomfort, and there's a huge difference between pain and discomfort, which I'll get to, but no matter how much pain or discomfort I was in, I can push through it, and the human body and human mind can push through that, that is incredibly healthy. That is incredibly healthy. So sometimes I'd say it's worth the physical sacrifices that may, you know, the four hours of sleep isn't healthy, all these different things, but the mental boost you get from those events and activities, I mean, are life changing.

Andrés Preschel: So, you know, this is, I want to fill the listeners in on something. Most people know who David Goggins is. And David Goggins has done Demo App. I believe the first time he did it, if I'm wrong, he didn't complete it. And, you know, it's David Goggins. So David Goggins actually did a podcast somewhat recently with Andrew Huberman. And they spoke about what you just mentioned. They spoke about the psychological and they looked at it from a neuroscience perspective. And I want to describe this because I think it's just so valuable for anybody. What you just said is so fucking valuable. If anyone tuning in wants to do something incredible in their life, they have to understand how this mechanism works and it's eliciting neuroplasticity. on a region of the brain called the anterior mid-cingulate cortex. We have two of them, one on each side of the brain, and it grows in response to doing difficult things. And if you actually look at the anterior mid-cingulate cortexes of the most accomplished individuals, whether they are executives or athletes the most, uh just the most accomplished human beings on the planet in the history of the world have the largest anterior meticular cortexes because they've elicited that neuroplasticity by doing things that are relatively very challenging for them so i can give you an example of something that wouldn't work it's like everyone knows you know cold plunge, an ice bath, like that's really difficult. But if you make a habit of going in the ice plunge for a couple of minutes at a time, and then you start to, it starts to feel a little easier for you, it gets to the point where you're no longer eliciting neuroplasticity. In fact, if it gets too easy, you might even see an atrophy or a shrinking in the center. So if you want to do, if you want to have that mental callus, so you can go harder and harder and harder and do more incredible things like you just said, you have to push that boundary. Otherwise, it's going to be more difficult to do the meaningful things you need to do to really accomplish something amazing because you're going to stunt the growth of this region in the brain.

Eli Wininger: A hundred percent. Like one hundred percent. I mean, I remember hearing, maybe what, I've heard that on some, maybe it was Peter T or Huberman. I don't, I don't think I heard the Goggins-Huberman one, but I think I heard Huberman talk about it with someone else, exactly what you said, which I found super fascinating that it's like, it's now scientifically proven. Like, like bro science things that were like, we know it, but like now it's, now it's in the data. Um, but I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't agree more. Like for me personally, this 250 mile race was the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. Without a doubt. Like I pushed myself to degrees. I just found out that I partially tore my hamstring at some point. You know, my knee started hurting at mile 50. I kept pushing and kept pushing and kept pushing it. I've had these knee pains before I've done a hundred miler. with knee pain at mile 50 so it's an extra 50 miles which was really hard at the time this is an extra 200 miles on this knee pain at some point that knee pain turned into all sorts of other pains and i mean it was brutal my brother adam who you know

Andrés Preschel: Yeah. Shout out to Adam. Shout out to Adam. I just got a workout with him at Anatomy.

Eli Wininger: I know. I talked to him. He was like, what? Andres didn't tell me you're going to hop on the podcast.

Andrés Preschel: I thought I did. Oh, wow.

Eli Wininger: Yeah. That's funny. But yeah, he's definitely going to listen to this. So shout out to Adam. But yeah, so I mean, you can ask him. I was in so much pain. He was whipping every card out in the book for the last 40 miles to help me. Yeah, he helped you with those last 40, huh? Oh, big time. Big time.

Andrés Preschel: What was it like to have your brother there? Are you guys older or younger? I'm older, but it was huge.

Eli Wininger: I mean, me and him push each other all the time, but we also support each other a lot. So we both got into ultramarathons. He got into it before me, but we both got into it from Goggins. And we have this fun like silent competition, but also like huge support at the same time. So we did the Leadville race together last year, which I don't know if he told you about how he surprised me in that one. I had signed up for it, didn't know he was also signed up and he surprised me on the start line that he was doing it as well. Wow. Which was super cool, yeah. It was the short story and then we ended up racing together, which was super fun. And then for this one, I mean, when I knew I was doing this one, he was my first ex, I was like, do you want to take me to the finish line? There's no one I'd rather have who can both get in my head because

Andrés Preschel: He knows you better than anybody else.

Eli Wininger: He knows you better. He also knows the sport better than the average pacer. So he knows what each section is going to be like. He knows what to look out for. He knows what to say, when to use encouragement, when to just like push me. Yeah, like all that kind of stuff. So he was amazing. Shout out to all my crew, if they're going to listen, and all my pacers. I literally would not have finished without them. It's so, so invaluable. But yeah, I mean, going back to the paintings, it was the most difficult thing I've ever done, these 250 miles. 251. I mean, you two aren't. And constantly pushing through it was just, was literally a sufferfest. And what Courtenay de Walter, who's a super famous ultra marathon runner, talks about the pain cave is just like getting in there, and you're just in this cave, and it's just full of pain. She used to talk about how early it would be, and she'd try to avoid getting into the pain cave. Now she's like welcomes the pain cave and she's like, Oh, this is the pain. This is me. This is my pain cave. Let's expand it. Let's renovate here. Let me get used to and get comfortable being in this home because it's a place where you can now grow. And for me, I mean, this was days in the pain cave, but I wouldn't have been able to do that. And it goes to David Goggins' cookie jar thing that he's talked about a bunch. If I hadn't done all these other things prior, my military experience, we've gone through training that, you know, like I said, with my officer, he would push us and push us and make sure that we're silent and we're not being these, you know, hoorah kind of mindset people just be silent, be focused on the mission, stay in your head and complete it. you know, my Ironman, my 50 milers, my hundred miles, all those little things brought me to being able to do this. Uh, and it was that neuroplasticity that was constantly growing over time. And it's also the discipline. I mean, training for something like this, being in good physical shape period, no matter what it is, whether you're expert in yoga, a big bodybuilder, whether you have the best, you know, mobility, whatever it may be, It requires constant discipline. We're looking at your sleep, looking at your nutrition, looking at your consistent daily practice. And that's sometimes more painful than all the other stuff. It's, it's resisting the, all the micro, micro things in life that, that are going to bring you to it and want you to cheat and want you to do all these different things. It's the constant discipline and it keeps you on track.

Andrés Preschel: Okay.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, and you know there's a, I want to amplify some of this by tying in a few concepts coined by Dr. Kelly McGonigal. She's a Stanford psychologist and she's She did a TED talk that, to this day, I don't know if it's number one most downloaded TED talk of all time, but it's up there. It's called Making Stress Your Friend. She's very well known for that. Basically, she talks about, you know, how the most dangerous thing about stress is your negative perception of it, and how it helps you build a biology of courage, but more importantly, As far as what I want to get into with you here is she authored a book called The Joy of Movement that is just an incredible, incredible book. It's so rich because it digs into these evolutionarily preserved mechanisms, like things that are within us that have been a part of our human experience forever that we can tap into when we exercise among other people. So, for example, you know, when we do exercise in a group or with our sibling or a teammate or someone in our unit, or even strangers, we tap into an expanded sense of self, which you touched on. And we quite literally experience an endorphin response, these feel-good hormones that help us go harder in the moment. And after the exercise, they help to Limit the amount of damage that has been done. They are cardio protective and they help our brain So basically when you're among other people doing difficult things not only can you go harder because you have this endorphins and you feel like they have Your back and you have their back and there's this oxytocin, you know that cuddle hormone that kicks in but it also Helps you reinforce that difficult effort. There's more positive reinforcement and you just get stronger and stronger over time and there's a few quotes that i wrote down when i read her book that i want to share with you that i would love for us to sort of us and the listeners to kind of uh simmer on uh because they really are just just wonderful so if you don't mind i'll just read off some of these quotes um so So she talks about, and you're an expert in this, she talks about the runner's high and then there's this other thing called the helper's high. You know, we get high, we help other people, right? And so she goes, you know, when you bring together the runner's high and the helper's high, the rewards go beyond a more satisfying workout. She then goes on to describe a 2017 review of how the endocannabinoid system works in the brain, and she mentions how scientists identified three things that reliably amp it up, and they are Cannabis intoxication which most people go to the gas when they heard endocannabinoid Exercise and social connection like think about it. You know most people here. Oh, maybe a good proportion have at some point in time Consume marijuana well you get a similar high when you're among other people when you combine the the runners high and the helpers high You know, and she talks about how, you know, we evolved as social creatures. We need one another to survive throughout human history and movement, whether labor, ritual, or play has helped us to connect, collaborate, and celebrate. And today, physical activity continues to draw us together and reminds us how much we need one another. this was something of a revelation, you know how much the individual psychology benefits of Physical activity rely on our social nature and how so much of the joy of movement is actually the joy of connection So, you know that a connection that you have with your brother. I think is just so meaningful and I hope that it inspires folks that are tuning in that want to do difficult things to remember and to appreciate That, you know, on our own we can go faster, but with each other we can go further. And you guys have certainly proved that.

Eli Wininger: Proved that one, yeah. Definitely. Yeah, I think by mile 211 when he picked me up, he could have gone much faster than I could have.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's the self-transcendence, you know, when you guys came together. There's a French sociologist, his name is Emile Durkheim, I believe is his… I forget his name. Okay. He coined the term collective effervescence to describe that euphoric, like, self-transcendence that we feel when we move together in ritual and prayer or work. Totally. Yeah, man, I mean, there's many quotes that I can read off here.

Eli Wininger: I love that TED talk that you were talking about with, what was her name?

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, Kelly McGonigal. So she's the author of the book. These are the quotes that I'm reading from her book.

Eli Wininger: I love that combo of runner's high and helper's high. I'd never heard of helper's high, but the second you said it, I was like, oh, 100%, I get that. And for me, I mean, those combine two of the things I love the most is, I mean, the runner's high, obviously I understand and just have connected with. A lot of people say that they never reached that runner's high and they don't get it. And there's all sorts of coaching things I could suggest them to actually get there. One of which is they're probably running too fast and they're just trying to like do this high school or middle school speed and they're not even close to that. So I'm just like to slow down a lot. And you'll eventually just get into this runner's high. And you know, it's not going to happen the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth time maybe. But eventually you'll just get in the habit and you'll start kind of clocking out and checking out. And it's a great feeling. But then the helper's high as well. People are addicted to helping each other. Once you help one person, you're going to want to help someone else. And you feel this benefit. It's almost a selfish thing to help other people because some people They may not even be doing it for the help. Sometimes it's they're doing it without realizing it because they know that they're going to feel good about it. When you combine the runner's high and the helper's high, which is, I mean, I felt like is exactly what I did on this race as I was deep into the runner's high for a long time. And I was doing it for the hostages to help. It was this like combined, whoa, feeling for me. And, and I mean, I think that's why you see run clubs are huge. People love getting together in social groups and, and running together. It's a super easy way to like meet people. And now it's basically a dating app. It's the best dating. It's the best way to date in 2024. And then, uh, I mean, you'll see like there's the coffee and chill in LA and Miami and on beach.

Andrés Preschel: Shout out to Eric Brown in Miami who hosts that incredible experience.

Eli Wininger: Oh, really? That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So there's, um, um, you know, there's that it's people just getting together, suffering in a cold punch. Like that's pretty much what it is. And then just hanging out afterwards. All these activities are people getting together in some sort of social movement to better themselves and also to reach these healthier points in their brain. You have all these different races, 5Ks, 10Ks, that are always for different types of, you know, during Cancer Month, they're going to have a 10K or a marathon, and all of them are for causes. People love it. They've been going around for decades now, and we need to keep them going, in my opinion.

Andrés Preschel: And I'm going to quote Kelly directly here one more time and say, you know, when physical activity is the most psychologically fulfilling, it's because our participation both reveals the good in us and lets us witness the good in others. and the feeling of boundaries dissolving which is relevant to dating when you're at the run club but also you know to go harder and go further. The feeling of boundaries dissolving is one of the most powerful aspects of collective joy. It's not the idea of being connected it is a physical sensation of connection and as she quotes Bronwyn Tarr, he goes, you know, the essence of collective joy is an expanded sense of self. So imagine how much further you can go in any dimension or any realm of your life, of this human experience, if you choose to do difficult things and suffer with other people. You know, the boundaries are limitless.

Eli Wininger: Um, so yeah, 100%. And that's, what's also nice about being, being in, in any type of race like that, whether it's a running race, an Ironman, um, you're seeing other people suffer with, with you. And like one of the things that for me while I'm racing, It, you know, I'll be in a section and I'm in tons of pain and it's super difficult. You know, maybe I'm on a high during it, but I know that for the most part, everyone else in that race in that section is probably suffering as well to different degrees, right? Like I had one point I had a torn hamstring, but everyone's miserable at this point in the race. No one's 200 miles into a race being like, Oh, this is, this is fun and easy. You know, no one's doing their first marathon at mile. 20 and being like, Oh, this is easy. When they've, you know, really hit the, hit the wall for the first time, everyone else around you, that's doing it for the first time, second time, third time, like they're also suffering. And that collective suffering pushes you for, for a forward, you look left and right. You're seeing everyone kind of in that pain cave. And, and it's unifying, you know, for me, I also love doing it being like, I'm not going to let this person be better than me. They're suffering, I can suffer too.

Andrés Preschel: You get into that back and forth and it's fun in a race.

Eli Wininger: even in the, in this race now there, you know, you're, you're ping pong and people leapfrogging each other. You pass them, then you have a weak point and you're slowing down a bit and they pass you. And the same thing happens to them. And you have this fun little friendly rivalry that you know is going to keep going until somebody finishes first. But it's all part of the fun competition. And 99% of the people in these races, you know, unless you're in the top 10 people, everyone's trying to just race themselves. At the end of the day, they're just racing themselves and you're supporting each other through it. If someone's clearly hurting on the side of the road, you're gonna ask each other, you're gonna ask them if they need help. And that's one of the beautiful parts about these races is that everyone's battling themselves with a slight battle against just friendly competition, but everyone's also pushing each other through it because everyone wants to see each other succeed. And it's just super fun.

Andrés Preschel: And this is a massive race. I mean, in the sense that it's just so daunting, to say the least. I mean, how many people were signed up for it? How many people were around you?

Eli Wininger: Yeah. So there's 250 participants in the race. There were 128 finishers. So just over 50% have completed the race. And I was doing a little bit of math this last week or two. And it was kind of cool to think that I mean, there's about two to 3000 people tops in, in history, take out, you know, hunter gatherers and, and going into deep anthropology or the, the off in the one off through hikers that are doing these crazy, like 400 mile feats in a few days, like with them being the exceptions, there's no more than two to 3000 people in modern history, let's call it that have run this distance. So everyone that you're looking around you, is crazy for signing up for it. Like just being on the start line is going to take a ton of training. I mean, there's 60 year olds that were doing this race. Um, and it just, it just, it requires this, this certain mentality just to get into it. Um, and yeah, I mean, it was 250 miles. I still am daunted when I'm thinking back at it, the more I think back at it.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, I mean, to put into perspective, again, just to amplify this point and show the listeners who, I mean, I think at this point we've already driven the point home in a lot of ways how difficult this is, but there's some studies that show that over 90% of, 95% of people over 30 years old will never sprint again. Right? And I would… Really? Yeah, it's something incredible. This was published in… Let's see. Let me look it up. I want to make sure I did the research justice here.

Eli Wininger: Well, your screening is so important.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, I have to see if I can find the source, but… That's fascinating. So, I mean, most people will never… I would assume that most people never get to run a combined total of 251 miles ever in the course of their lifetime, right? This metric alone is just, I think, very representative of how much we limit our human experience because we live in such a, among other things, we live in such a convenient environment. We don't need to run or sprint to make ends meet anymore. You know, we can just sit on our ass and work from home and make ends meet. However, we get to tap into an incredible plethora of these mechanisms that are ingrained in our DNA that help us feel better, perform higher, connect more deeply with people, and that's something that will benefit anyone, because it's something that we all have in common, right? So, you know, I think more people need to acknowledge that while we don't need to run distances like these, we don't need to sprint, It's going to reward us in ways beyond what we can fathom currently, because literally our brain grows. We elicit neuroplasticity. We have new neural networks that are coming about and rewarding us outside of the race for the rest of our lives. If we just decide, you know what, I'm going to do something difficult today.

Eli Wininger: And it could be anything. Like I said, obviously, no one needs to run that distance. I don't recommend most people running that distance. But whatever.

Andrés Preschel: Whatever distance you feel uncomfortable with, that's the distance.

Eli Wininger: Whatever distance you feel, like for some people, you could literally be getting up and running for 10 minutes that day. Yeah. That's going to slowly grow. And even now, like for me, I have no interest in doing that distance again. And I'm shifting my own focus because for me personally, it was like, OK, well, I've reached A certain ceiling obviously I can explore the ceiling and do this 200 mile race and that hundred something mile race and do this Compete for that time and there's a whole world once you get into the black hole of that that you can explore but For to a certain degree I've reached a ceiling in in this world Let's explore other ceilings So for me now like pushing to a new level in running is going to cause so much strain on my body but also Like, you need to do so much just to gain an extra one, two, three percent. Diminishing returns. Yeah. Like, if I switch now and I'm like, let me get back into yoga. I'm also yoga certified. Let me get back into yoga. Let me, you know, get into swimming. Like, for me right now, doing a two mile swim would be insane, but it's also worth it. You should try free diving. Funny story about that. I actually tried to get Resight diving certification with Adam in Costa Rica. Yeah. Can't do the Valsalvo, whatever it is technique. Really? Really? Yeah. Failed miserably. Adam was cracking up. He had a great time knowing that he crushed it. And I was like, I would go like five to 10 meters down.

Andrés Preschel: He won up you there on that one. But like you said, you guys go back. Maybe he won up you there on that one, but you guys go back and forth. Yeah. He crushed me.

Eli Wininger: Yeah, I definitely want to go back and try it again. It looks super fun. I've seen a bunch of your videos. I want to be able to do it and go spearfishing and it's just like, it's so in tune with so much of what I love to do. Yeah. Um, but that's, that's a perfect example. Is that like me getting to even a moderate level of free diving? A would take less time, way less strain on my body, all that, but it would have so much more returns personally. So it's like exploring and pushing your own boundaries. Like within the physical realm, people always say, is this the best shape you've ever been in in your life? Well, it depends what. If you ask me to carry 90% body weight right now, there's no way I could do it. But I was able to do that in the army. If you asked me to bench press 250 pounds, there's no way I could do it, but I was able to do it in college. If you asked me to run an Ironman, I couldn't bike or swim that distance, but I was able to do it at the end of college. So it's all relative right now. Ask me to dive for two minutes at 20 meters, literally no chance. Yeah, you could probably I mean, I don't know what the parameters are here, but you could probably do that easy. And that's like a normal day for you. Like getting to that would be so much more fun, right? For every single person, they just need to know that. They don't have to run 250 miles. They don't even have to run a marathon for all I care. Find what ever is important and fun for you. Like the most important is just getting outside and being physically active and pushing your mindset. Challenging yourself physically and mentally. It could literally be anything. And that activity alone is not only going to grow the neuroplasticity, but it's going to be fun and it's going to challenge you and it's going to be healthy for you. And that's like the biggest recommendation I have. And once you become an expert in one, if you want. change it up. No one's forcing, like, I have this identity now as a runner and people are like, oh, Eli, what's your next race? I'm like, I don't think I'm going to run for, like competitively run for a while now. I'm just going to switch it up and find something new and fun and reinvest a fuck ton of money into other sports that now is going to drain my bank account, but whatever.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah. Yeah. I can empathize with the expensive hobbies myself, but hey, I mean, it really is about, you know, doing something unique. You know, when you do any of these niche activities, it's going to require an investment because it's relatively inaccessible for a reason. You know, you have to go out of your way to make it happen.

Eli Wininger: Totally. But again, I'm not trying to get people to shy away because of the expense also. The focus here is just doing something and getting outside and doing something physically active that you enjoy. Bare minimum, let's start at that. Enjoy it, but challenge yourself. Exactly. And usually they're going to come hand in hand. Yeah. Like it'll be like, have it be something you're good at. Right. Running comes naturally to me and I enjoy it, but like continuously running more makes it more challenging. There are other things, for example, free diving does not come naturally to me at all, but I'm going to now challenge it because it's going to be fun and it's going to push me even though I suck at it right now. But the more repetitions you do, the more you practice, I guarantee the first time I do a 10 meter dive, I'm gonna be fucking stoked. I'm gonna come out of that water with the same smile, if not bigger, than when I was running my first marathon or 50 miler. Because it's gonna be a huge accomplishment for me, even though it's the tiniest, easiest thing for someone else. But if someone doesn't like that, and they just want to go out for a walk, instead of your hour long walk, make it an hour and a half. Push yourself that little bit amount. Instead of doing one various bootcamp class, challenge yourself and do two in a row. Little things like that just to push yourself is going to be a world of a difference.

Andrés Preschel: And to tie this back into physiology, in physiology the way that we would describe this is first of all, the very specific nature of the stimulus warrants the specific nature of the adaptation. So going back to what you were saying how if you're fit for this but you're not fit for that right now but you're still fit. Well, yeah, according to the kind of activity that you're doing, this is what you're fit for now. Yes, generally, you're a super fit guy, mentally and physically, but if you train so specifically for something, that's where you're gonna be best fit for, and then you can switch it up. But regardless, you know, there has to be a hormetic response. So, hormesis, or you stress, like a positive form of stress, it's basically, it's a, enough stress to warrant an adaptive response of the body. So, when you go in the gym, most people, the simplest example that I can give here is, you go to the gym, right? The idea is you go to the gym, you lift heavy weight, you apply resistance, and your muscle suffers, like, you know, it hurts, it swells up. But that is what stimulates growth. Assuming you have, you know, adequate recovery, sleep, nutrition, time off, your muscle will grow. Obviously, there's such thing as overdoing it, and there's such thing as underdoing it. But that sweet spot is going to feel uncomfortable. Now, the next level up that most people are not fully familiar with, but I think I want to emphasize, and you'll appreciate this too, is breath work. I tell a lot of people, you want to hold your breath longer for free diving or just to increase your VO2 max? All these mechanisms are very tied together in a sense. A lot of people, I tell them, hey, look, next time you go to the gym, just try to nasal breathe as much as possible. And it's not going to be easy because while it is a more efficient way to breathe, it's slower. And you will feel this urge to breathe because CO2, carbon dioxide, which is acidic, it'll build up in your blood. And your brain is going to say, hey, man, breathe more quickly. And you're going to shift into mouth breathing. And that's going to keep you from being able to recover more quickly between sets, even though it's counterintuitive because you know, when you nasal breathe, you engage more of the diaphragm, more of the vagus nerve for parasympathetic activity, you get to filter the air better, humidify the air better, you see an increase in nitric oxide, lowers your blood pressure, has an antibacterial, antimicrobial, antifungal effect in the nose and the sinuses, all these benefits. But just like when you go and you lift weight and you feel that strain in the muscle, when you're nasal breathing, while you train, that relative discomfort is the reason why the anatomy and physiology of your breath will improve over time. Like you were saying, this applies to any difficult thing. So it's a matter of, yeah, if you want to keep your brain spicy and promoting neurogenesis, just apply the mentality that you have to anything that you do. And do the things that make you frustrated. And the last thing I want to say here before I switch this back on to you, because I want to dig into a lot of topics beyond the race. Last thing I want to say is I probably need to start running. And how about this, I'll make you a deal. Because it's what I dislike the most. So just appreciating this theme that we're discussing here. I'll tell you what, I'm more than happy to give you all the advice and help that you could ever want or need for freediving. And in exchange, all I ask is that you help me run a few more miles. Easy. Easy. I'm great at sprinting, but I hate running distance, which is exactly why I have to do it. 100%.

Eli Wininger: Tell me what your goal is. I'm happy to help you out.

Andrés Preschel: I want to run a 100-mile race.

Eli Wininger: Definitely.

Andrés Preschel: I thought you were going to say a marathon. And that scares the shit out of me to say that, which is exactly why I have to do it.

Eli Wininger: That's the feeling that you need. That's the feeling that you need.

Andrés Preschel: This is the first time that I've localized this, by the way. I've never said this to anyone before.

Eli Wininger: You've inspired me. Dude, it's so funny because Adam would always tell me, like, I can't run too much under, so it says I can't run. I can't do the ultra marathons anymore. They're not good for me. I'm like, right, they're not good for us. It's the mentality. Me and Adam are, we've both overdone it. Like what you're about to, I'm guessing what you're about to say. is so spot on. It's like you don't have to do this as your main form of activity forever, but it's breaking that fear in your head and getting over that huge discomfort. Then you go back to whatever you're doing afterwards. But that like year or two that it's going to take just to get there, it's going to be massive and it's going to be life changing. Just like for me, I've hit a plateau here. Let's switch it up. Freedom 100%. Dude, I'm stoked to go spearfishing with you once I'm done with this certification.

Andrés Preschel: Absolutely, consider it done.

Eli Wininger: I'm happy to help you. We can chat about it now or offline and give you as much advice as you need. I love it, man.

Andrés Preschel: Thank you so much. Adam, just to fill the audience in, Adam is someone that I met through your cousin, Nikita. Shout out to Nikita. DJ Nigiri, best DJ in Miami. Now she's just Nikita Green. Oh, Rishi, okay, perfect. I love it. I love it. You know, Adam, like you, I mean, you guys are so successful. And I think it does have a lot to do with the neurogenesis, neuroplasticity you've elicited on your anterior vascular cortex, as you know. And I took him under my wing. He was my client, actually just graduated. We did six months together. And, you know, he had very specific goals. He had, he had, he wanted to increase his VO2 max and, and put on more muscle and obviously his VO2 was very, very high. Yeah, dude, he's looking absolutely amazing. The other day we were working on anatomy and I was like, dude, I mean, your face is more chiseled. Like you got, you got this handsome Squidward look, you got a six pack, you look amazing.

Eli Wininger: And then, and then I was like,

Andrés Preschel: yeah and i was like hey man how much do you weigh and he's like you know i think i weigh about this much and i was like i think we might weigh around the same dude he gets on the scale he's 169.2 i get on the scale exactly the same way to the decimal point and i was like dude I was like, wow, man, this is awesome. But anyway, I wanted to mention that because, like you said, yes, there is diminishing return. Yes, we do things for different reasons. There's different benefits. But he switched it up. And I had him doing things that he had never done before that helped his body adapt in a different way. And it just goes back to, we were fit in different ways. But still, your mental fitness is like, Is topped off and you have to continue to maintain it by doing difficult things in other dimensions in other areas So yeah, man, I want to start running because I hate it and I suck at it That's David Goggins dude. Way to go. It's the way to go.

Eli Wininger: David Goggins says people think I love running I fucking hate running like I look at those shoes in front of the door and like I'll sit there for an hour make an excuse to myself before I put it on Yeah, it's so true. It's also true. You just gotta you just gotta do it dude hundred miles. I'm hype for you I'd love it.

Andrés Preschel: I'd love that. I'm gonna look back on this podcast and we're gonna say we fucking did it Yeah I have a few questions for you about the more emotional side behind this effort. If you can take me through… And by the way, something that we should have probably tackled earlier, just a small detail. How long ago did you do this race? I know the answer, but I want to show people just how recent this is. It's kind of nuts that you're on this podcast.

Eli Wininger: I did the race two weeks ago. Today is my first day not like on a cane actually because I injured my wrist and it tore my hamstring I just found out. So I got the MRI results literally five minutes before our call. So I was like told that I'm gonna text my family but tore my hamstring but it's no surgery needed just need to do a bunch of PT. Yeah, a lot of PT and aqua therapy and tart cherry juice and all the good stuff. But yeah, I finished it two weeks ago.

Andrés Preschel: Can you take us through a timeline of like how you felt the days before the race, during the race, and how you felt, you know, the past two weeks? You can reflect back and tell us emotionally, maybe physically, how you felt.

Eli Wininger: Totally. I mean, I'll even take it a little bit further back too, because I've actually trained for this race for two years now. Oh wow. And the reason it was two years is, so I mean, I've been in ultramarathon running and running. So if you look at the big picture, it's probably been several years. But with this race in particular, It was two years because I spent the first year training for it. I was actually signed up for this race October 13th, 2023. Wow. And I did Leadville, finished Leadville, got a little bit injured, had rehabbed myself and was ready to do it. And then October 7th hit, 2023, my military team got called into the army. So I pulled out of the race, told them I'm not gonna be racing, watched it on Instagram or whatever it is, was in war for four and a half months, focused on that, came back from the war and I was signed up for this race for this year, 2024. And mentally I couldn't get into it. more from like, you know, minor PTSD of the war. I was like, what's the point of running all these miles? There's no purpose in it. I couldn't figure it out. I was just like, I was like, there's so many more important things. This is the least important to run all these crazy miles. I should be doing so many other things with my time. It should be healthier. It should be all these different things. And I eventually put the numbers together. First it was 240 miles in the race and all the news sources were saying 240 plus hostages had been taken on October 7th. So when those two numbers just somehow connected. I go, wow, I'm going to run a mile for every hostage in dedication to them. That was taken on October 7th and we'll work with bring them home now foundation, which is, was created on October 7th by friends and families of the hostages with the sole purpose of bringing the hostages back and helping rehabilitate the hostages and their families and give them all the aid they need. It's like, that's going to be my purpose here. I'm no longer on the front lines physically, but I can be, Still serving my body and still serving my time for this bigger Bigger purpose and still doing something that I love and that was that became my new why to do it So then the next the last year has now been I guess maybe was like six seven months has now been training for this moment of the race so I've been envisioning envisioning this finish line for almost two years now and Well, fast forward about a week or two before the race, Israel had actually gone into Lebanon, there was that whole thing, and my unit's specialty is in Lebanon, so my mentality was like, are they about to call my unit right now and I'm about to have to pull out of the race again for a second time? Luckily that didn't happen. And I personally didn't feel like I was as well trained for this particular race as I was last year for the race. Just, I'd been busy traveling all over, speaking, it was just a tough year, being in war, the whole thing. So going into the race, I mean the night before, the day before, the whole couple weeks. I mean, there's a lot of logistics that goes into planning for these races, getting your crew, getting your pacers, you know, timing of a race. It's not like you can just Google how to pace yourself for a marathon for, uh, you know, three hour, 20 minute finish. And there's like a million different YouTube videos and a million different, uh, lists and tables and training mechanisms and all that, like that doesn't exist for this distance. So, especially because the terrain is so different. Some of it's more technical, more climbing, less climbing. So, you really have to plan it out yourself. So, I was scared. I mean, I was going into a realm I'd never done. I didn't have a coach for this one. I'd had it last year, but I just didn't do it this year. So I, and I'd reused a bunch of it. So I was kind of scared going into it. Am I, you know, did I train well enough? Am I ready for it? Is my knee injury going to flare up, which comes and goes, you know, you don't really have full control over it. Sometimes it happens. Obviously it did. Um, there was a lot of fear. I mean, I was going into it the day, two days before I knew I was going to finish. But while I did, while it's this like dual mentality of I knew I was going to finish, there's no way I was going to quit. The only thing would be some big crazy accidental injury that would have happened. So I knew I was like not going to let anything stop me. But at the same exact time, there was this deep fear of like, Oh my God, did I train enough? Am I ready? Is this going to happen? You know, I didn't, you know, I'm procrastinating the logistics. I missed those trainings. I didn't do enough trail running. I didn't, you know, do enough strength training. There's all the things you didn't do start coming up. And that's why preparation is so important. Cause if you nail the prep preparation, I can't remember who said this, but, uh, you know, being nervous before any type of big, Oh, it was actually Alex Hermosi and Chris Williams, uh, They said, you know, if you're not prepared enough and you're starting to feel really nervous, there's a difference between excitement and nervous going into a big event, speech, meeting, no matter what it is. If you're nervous rather than excited, it probably means you didn't prepare enough. And that's exactly how I felt. I was like, there were things that I could have done better. And, you know, and my time showed for it too. You know, maybe I wouldn't have gotten injured if I did more strength training or more mobility, all sorts of things that could have come up. But then, you know, the morning of the race, still feeling nervous, but like kind of getting ready or getting into this mindset of I've done races before. It's kind of like when you go into a test or, you know, midterm or any other race or big competition you've done, it starts, you start kind of getting into that pattern and rhythm. I've done enough races. And then the gun goes off and then it's just that, that switch just turns and it's just go time. And then you get into this rhythm of, okay, I know what to do. And it's very similar in war. Like when I went into war for the first time, I'd been on, even my first couple of real missions, this is way back in the day, but we trained for these things a million times. We've trained for war a million times. But waking up that first morning, knowing we're about to go into Gaza and this is real now, you all of a sudden check your gear two more times. Checked it, you've used it a million times, now you know it's real and it's about to work. It's about to go in and you need it. You're gonna check it one or two more times to be extra, extra sure. You're gonna send those extra text messages. You're gonna look at your friends and family and your teammates with that, like, there was that look in our eyes. But then the second we went into Gaza, the second we went, you know, we started doing things, boom, training came in. And you just, you, you act exactly the way you did in training. You get into this rhythm. We know how we need to act. We know how we need to do it. We know what our lineup has to be. All of that just starts clicking in. So when the race started, boom. You get into it, you start running, you pace yourself. You know, it's a much longer race than I was used to. So rather than running off the line, I just kind of slow jogged, walked part of it. I mean, it's a 250 mile race and that was still daunting to me. And you know, your first mile in, if you start thinking I have 250 miles to go, especially when my knee started hurting at mile 50, I have 200 miles to go. That breaks you. I mean, for a hundred mile or two, for anything, it really breaks you. So you have to compartmentalize it or segment the race. And you can't think I have 250 miles that I'm about to run to think, okay, where's the next aid station? This is my pace. This is what I need to do to get the next aid station. I need to keep in mind to have a much further way to go. So I can't just sprint to the next aid station, but like,

Andrés Preschel: That's my focus. How far apart were the aid stations?

Eli Wininger: At the shortest, I think it was like eight or 10 miles apart. And at the longest was I think 21 miles apart. And that means you have, you know, in between the two, there's no water, electrolytes, food, anything. So really each aid station is where I would get there. refuel, eat as much as I can, you're burning about 7,000 calories a day. So you need to really, really, really load up. And what you eat doesn't necessarily, like your focus should just be whatever your body is going to take in, right? Yeah. Get sugar, it doesn't matter. As long as your body's going to bring it in, your body will burn that sugar in two seconds. That's where it kind of goes into, your body just turns into an oven. Anything you give it, it's going to turn, it's going to turn into energy right away. But you also need the protein. So you need all this stuff. You're running a marathon. You're not going to have a cheeseburger. You're not going to have protein.

Andrés Preschel: It's just going to be as simple as possible. You know, like these gels.

Eli Wininger: I mean, you're running for four and a half days straight. Your body's going to break down if it's not getting any protein. Yeah. So you really need to have all this kind of stuff in your head. So each aid station was okay. I got here. I'm 10 miles in 15 or 20 miles further in, let me eat. Where's the next aid station? How long is that? How far is that? How long is it going to take me? Okay. What have I eaten already? What time is it? How am I, how's my body feeling? You really need to connect and just feel your body. You need to mentally track it as well. And the big thing is eat. The more you can, like people always say, ultra marathons, especially 100 milers are, uh, are, are eating competitions in disguise running. Cause you just need, you just need the calories. It doesn't matter what form you're going to get it in. If you can put it in your body, your body will take it, do it.

Andrés Preschel: Did you take any like essential amino acids, exogenous ketones, gels?

Eli Wininger: I took gels. I took Morton gel, which is really just a bunch of sugar. I took All sorts of different bars, stuff like that, but I'm big on, and that's part of training, is you really need to understand what your body likes. Everyone has different things. Some people won't use anything from the races because their body likes certain things, so they're going to bring their gels that they use, and they're going to bring the foods and snacks that they use. My body fortunately is, is pretty adaptive. And I actually, after a certain short period of time, can't take all the gels and sugars too much anymore. And my body craves a salt, but be real food. So I was having burgers, pancakes, breakfast burritos, and then you just finish that and you start running again. I mean, running, slow walking, running, you let your body build into it. But the big thing is, if you're running a long race and you're thinking about the 100 miles or the 200 miles, you'll mentally break. And it works with a lot of things in life that people can probably relate to. If you have a huge work project, or a huge development if you're in real estate or a huge app that you have to dish out if you're in tech, whatever it is, and you're thinking about this massive, massive, massive project and you're trying to tackle it today, you're going to overwhelm yourself. But if you can break it down into small sections that are all bite-sized doable daily, or even like hourly sections, and you're like, okay, I just do this. And then I just do that. And then I do that. And then I do that. And when you add it all up, you've completed this incredible project. And it's the same thing with the race. Obviously you have to train for it. You have to be prepared. You have to do all that, but it's the same thing. And that's the emotional part of it is not being overwhelmed with the big picture. is. 15 miles all of a sudden sounds much harder than it was 150 miles ago. Like I've done, but same name, you've done 15 miles in your training a million times, a million times. So all you do is another 15 miles and then it becomes really painful. And that's where like that, that other part of the race comes in. And for me it was at one point it became no matter how painful this is, There were two, two aspects. One was the hostages are going through worse, no matter how painful it is. And, you know, just for, to keep it balanced, everything for sure, people living in Gaza and Palestinians are going through way worse right now. Uh, but for me, my why was the hostages. Um, but the hostages are going through worse. So no matter how much pain I'm in, If they can do all that without an end in sight, my end was the next 15 miles or the next 200 miles. I had an end where I knew the suffering was going to end. They don't. And that mindset for me was like, wow. I know my end. It's four days from now. It's two days from now. It's a day from now. It's 20 miles from now. They have no idea. That gave me so much strength. Two was just the gratitude that I could be here. I could be free, right? The hostages don't have that freedom. The people in Gaza don't have that freedom. I have the freedom to do this, to quit when I want, to not quit when I want, to be out in nature, to go for all these hikes. I should be grateful. So I was starting to have these gratitude practices during it, like, wow. I can do this. This is, this is amazing. And these were a lot of heavy, emotional things that were going through my head where I remember I was about half a mile from the finish line and either Adam or one of my other friends or the medic that was with me, something they had said like, Eli, you did it. Like you did it for the hostages. And I just started breaking down in tears and crossing the finish line was, was huge. I mean, it was a two year dream in the making.

Andrés Preschel: Dude, I didn't want to interrupt your flow when you said this, but when you mentioned how, you know, these 240 miles that you already spent a year preparing for happened to line up with the number of hostages, you kind of just took those two things together and it created this… it crystallized this why. Dude, my body was overwhelmed by… Wow. By, uh, by goosebumps.

Eli Wininger: Yeah, I just want to rant here for like probably 15 minutes without realizing it.

Andrés Preschel: No, no, but I really appreciate you tapping into this and I could, I could see, you know, that it's, I mean, it is so recent and it's such a daunting endeavor that you set out for yourself. I mean, I can feel the emotions are still very, uh, uh, you know, within reach, um, still, you know, part of your every day. And I really appreciate you bringing this onto the show because it really just, it shows people the gravity, the weight of the things that we're discussing that are all theoretical, maybe based in science, but to really push the edge of what we consider human performance, the realm of possibility that we know, I mean, it takes this depth of emotion and this depth of purpose to see something like that through. So I really appreciate you being able to tap into that and sharing what that felt like and what it looked like.

Eli Wininger: So thank you. Of course. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for all this. But yeah, I mean, for so many people, I would just also say like, And this goes on a slightly different route, but like, man, it's very cheesy and corny, but like find your why, find your purpose. It could be in anything. But like, once you have that and you can like make it up, like there's, there's, Me running the 251 miles didn't free the hostages. I'm not like in some illusion that the whole year of training that I was going to finish this and the hostages would be free. It's like obviously not. But it can give you this higher purpose. So no matter what you're doing in your life, you could be in finance, you could be in whatever. Find that higher purpose find some sort of connection whether it's for your family Whether it's for whatever if you're training for a marathon to you know, just be healthier, right? Who gives a shit about the marathon? Just to be healthier and to push yourself mentally that you know, that's enough of a why it could be to show your kid What is possible? That's a huge why for someone For a dad to show their kid who's going to be on the sidelines and also see their dad training every day, kids' brains learn by visually seeing, not necessarily by being told all the time, by experience. Everyone's got to have some other why that's going to push them. It doesn't matter. The why doesn't have to be that you love running. The why doesn't have to be to complete a marathon. The why could be to show your kid. And you're showing your kid that you're more disciplined. You're showing your kid that health is important. You're showing your kid that that mindset is so important by doing a marathon. So everyone's got their own why. And once you find that, I mean, nothing's going to stop you.

Andrés Preschel: It's incredible, man. Yeah. Yeah, this is… There's no words, really. I mean, to say it's inspiring is almost belittles just how powerful it is. It's beyond inspiring. I mean, look, I think there's many more topics that we can get into, and perhaps we should do a part two, maybe we do it in person. But I want to make sure that people listen to this in its entirety, so maybe we can start to conclude and shift some gears here. If you could put a word, message, or phrase on a billboard anywhere in the world, what would it say and where would you put it, man?

Eli Wininger: Well, anywhere in the world. I would put it, this isn't actually what I originally thought going into it, but I think it's so important. I put it in Times Square and I would just write Breathe. I feel like people there are probably on such an edge. At first I was thinking of like, get outside, right? Maybe like put it on some wall street thing that's going to be inside, like wherever the most amount of people on wall street can see it and just like get outside. Right. Cause I think, I think there's so much, but at the same time, if you're in times square, I feel like just the, People's nervous systems are probably so high there. Anytime I go to New York, I can't stand Times Square.

Andrés Preschel: I can't be there for more than a couple of days. I was born there, so I'm in New York, but I can't be there for more than a couple of days.

Eli Wininger: Especially Times Square. I get there, I'm like, oh my god, you feel this energy? And I'm like, holy shit, I'm in Times Square. And they're like, get me out of here. And I think people just need to breathe. People don't breathe enough. It goes back to your whole breath work that you were talking about and using nasal breathing People, we get caught up with our lives and we forget to breathe. And that's the most important thing. You can run marathons, you can work out every day, but if you don't have control of your breath, it's going to affect the rest of your body. So I think that's what I would end up going with, which I didn't expect to use as my answer.

Andrés Preschel: Amplify this as well like it's not just because we're always breathing but I think what I think what you what you're implying is like notice your breath because yeah, then gives you that agency to change your body in the way that you feel and It also invites presence, you know and Amplified it that way because definitely what I meant And I'm honored to, man. I think if you ask me that question, like if next time someone asks me that question, I think I'm gonna say something similar because it is such a, it's something that we do all the time, but it's therefore the easiest thing to overlook, but it's so powerful. And it applies to everything from enjoying a vacation, being in Times Square, to running 251 miles. You know, noticing your breath is gonna give you superpowers.

Eli Wininger: The nasal breathing is something I just remembered. It's something that Adam actually mentioned to me a bunch during the race. I'd be like, oh really? Mouth breathing a bunch, it was so hard for me. I'm gonna stick with it. 220, 230 miles into it, I'm miserable. I'm like so in my head and all I'm thinking about is the next step. I'm looking down, I'm making sure I'm not like tripping. I'm dragging my knee and leg around. And then he would just be like, Eli, like nasal breathe, nasal breathe. He was just poking me with it all the time. It was good. Cause I was like, I'd realized I'd stopped. And then I'd go back into nasal breathing. I noticed the difference. It was huge. I'm not going to take credit for this, but I will say. You were with me in the rinse. Cause you would stick there with him and he would stick there with me.

Andrés Preschel: I'm a stickler with it. Whenever we're working on anatomy, I just point at my nose. I look at him and I go like this. And he goes, all right, all right, all right. And he gets into it. So I'm not going to take credit for that. That's, that's, you know, Adam has transformed and I give him, you know, actually, you know who taught me this? Aurelio Norelli, one of my dearest friends who was an IDF soldier, actually a commander as well. He shared something with me on that episode that changed my life. He said, dude, leaders don't take credit. Leaders don't take credit? That changed my life, man. So, you know, I've had the chance to be like, in a way, a guide and a mentor.

Eli Wininger: I'm going to add to that. They don't take credit, but they do take blame. Oh, wow. A good leader won't take the credit. He'll put the, he'll put the rewards on his team. Yeah. But when something happens and something fucks up, it's their fault.

Andrés Preschel: They hold themselves accountable on behalf of the rest of the team because they're the ones leading the team and they need to hold themselves accountable to lead by example and because they're their leaders.

Eli Wininger: According to my officer, he does that beautifully.

Andrés Preschel: So leaders don't take credit, but they do take the blame. Exactly. Wow. Dude, you have officially changed my life. I mean, you already did with, uh, with, uh, with, with what we covered at the beginning of the show up until this point. But now, I mean, this is really the cherry on top, man. I can't thank you enough.

Eli Wininger: Of course, man. My pleasure. It's been incredible. You asked me to join.

Andrés Preschel: Yeah, no, dude, it's my pleasure. And, uh, I'd love to have you back on.

Eli Wininger: Jeff, I'm in Miami. We'll do it in person.

Andrés Preschel: Great. Hopefully you'll be able to walk properly by the time that you're back. Keep doing your contrast therapy. The tart cherry juice is just so well established in the exercise physiology world for diminishing that excess inflammation, delayed onset muscle soreness. Try the red light therapy. I mean, get some sleep.

Eli Wininger: Do it all. Oh, yeah. Dude, I've been sleeping like 10 hours a night. My woke was not happy with me after the race, but now it's getting happy. I bet.

Andrés Preschel: And it's cool you have all the Garmin data as well for the race, right?

Eli Wininger: Dude. Oh my god. I had so many things run out of battery. My phone ran out of battery, my Whoop ran out of battery, so I didn't have the whole thing. And I was charging it, but my portable chargers, there was something wrong with them. My watch, this was the hardest one. My watch, I thought it was charging. Every aid station I got to, I charged it. And then it died on me. And I guess the portable charger, just something was with the core. I don't know what it was, but it died on me. So I only have like 170 something miles on it.

Andrés Preschel: I mean, how often do these people get to test 251 miles at Moab?

Eli Wininger: I was so, I wanted my Strava score to show 200. Oh my God.

Andrés Preschel: It's all for the Strava flex.

Eli Wininger: It's all for the Strava. Not even for Instagram. It's all for Strava.

Andrés Preschel: I love it, man. Man, it's been an absolute honor and pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us and for your why and for your mission for the hostages and on behalf of our community, the listeners, man, everyone, just thank you so much.

Eli Wininger: Of course, man, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you. This has been great. Lovely.

Andrés Preschel: All right, well, we'll see you hopefully very soon, man. All the best.

Eli Wininger: Take care. Bye-bye.

Andrés Preschel: So that's all for today's show. Thank you so much for tuning in today. For all of the show notes, including clickable links to anything and everything that we discussed today, everything from discount codes to videos, to research articles, books, tips, tricks, techniques, and of course, to learn more, about the guest on today's episode, all you have to do is head to my website, AndresPreschel.com, that's A-N-D-R-E-S-P-R-E-S-C-H-E-L.com, and go to podcasts. You can also leave your feedback, questions, and suggestions for future episodes, future guests, so on and so forth. Thanks again for tuning in, and I'll see you on the next one. Have a lovely rest of your day.